Talk:Lavender Brown/Archive 1

Actor Image Change?
Just out of curiosity, should the image of Jennifer Smith be replaced or coexist with Jessica Cave? Just curious on the community's thoughts since Jessica will have a more prominent role as Lavender than Jennifer. RaggieSoft 01:45, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
 * They're both valid actors who've played the character. Unfortunately, as far as I know, no picture of Jessica Cave as Lavender Brown exists. -- DarkJedi613 (Talk) 05:24, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed. As soon as an in-character photo is available, it should be changed. - Cavalier One ( Wizarding Wireless Network ) 08:12, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Alright. Figured people would want to wait for an in-character photo RaggieSoft 14:10, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
 * http://28.media.tumblr.com/FSHMyE0PWovevfyfrDsJbskPo1_500.jpg found one!

Images - Jennifer/Jessie
This is just a note to anyone editing the article:-

Images of both Jennifer Smith as Lavender and Jessie Cave will be used on this article, despite a contrasting appearance they both represented the CHARACTER in individual films and their images are to be used where relevant (ie: related to the text) So far the images are fine as they are. Please do not delete/remove any of Jennifer Smith as Lavender, but feel free to add anymore of Jessie Cave as Lavender to the article in a relevant area.

Thankyou, Patr0nus 19:30, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Actor mix-up?
I believe that the girl pictured in the photographs from the Prisoner of Azkaban film may be Kandice Morris rather than Jennifer Smith. Kandice is credited in the film as "Girl 1" and on her casting agency's site as "Kellah." Kandice's casting agency page features a publicity photo of her, but I've yet to find a picture of Jennifer Smith, so we can't compare their appearances. Does anyone else thinks that the girl in the PoA pics in this article looks like Kandice Morris? If so, then we should remove these pictures from the article, as Kandice did not portray Lavender. &#x2605; S t a r s t u f f (Owl me!) 07:32, September 18, 2009 (UTC)


 * I found this thread on IMDb where a user called "makeitsparkle" clears up the confusion by posting several pictures. Kandice Morris and Jennifer Smith can be seen side-by-side in the far left side of this photo, with Kandice on the left, and Jennifer on the right. Kandice has a rounder face and wears her hair in cornrow braids; Jennifer has a more heart-shaped face, wears her hair straight with a part, and looks serious in a lot of the photos. All of the photos in this article are of Kandice, so I'll try to find pictures of Jennifer to replace them, now that we know who is who. &#x2605; S t a r <font face="Times" color="green">s <font face="Times" color="dimgrey">t <font face="Times" color="green">u <font face="Times" color="dimgrey">f <font face="Times" color="green">f <font face="Times" color="darkgreen">(Owl me!) 07:59, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

Blood status
I would still consider her pure-blood status as canon. It´s never directly contradicted. Her parents may simply not have told her, as mentioned in Behind the Scenes.--Rodolphus 11:00, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand why her blood status is considered "very unsure" just because she didn't know what a Grim was... if she's on Rowling's draft list as pure-blood, then why would there be any confusion just because of something so minor? --Emmy

Significance of changing race
I think it would be interesting to note in Behind the Scenes that the change of Lavender's actor from black to caucasian is one of only a few occasions in film history where a recurring character in a major film series has changed race (in terms of actor). Among the only other examples are Felix Leiter in the Bond films and Harvey Dent (Two-Face) in the Batman movies. 23skidoo 06:33, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

Race Not Indicated? Wrong, Actually.
Lavender is somewhat mentioned in "Half-Blood Prince" as white, and I quote:

"...stood Ron, wrapped so closely around Lavender Brown it was hard to tell whose hands were whose." on page 300 of "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince.

With that said, we can therefore draw from this that she is white in the books; after all, if you can't tell whose hands are whose, then Lavender must be white, or she could easily be distinguished from Ron, couldn't she?

--Dr.Chamberlin 09:27, January 4, 2010 (UTC)

CoS film
It says in her appearances section that she appears in the CoS film, but I really don't recall any mention of her. Can anybody enlighten me? Christophee (talk) 23:44, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * It says in the article that Kathleen Cauley played her in that film. -Smonocco 08:09, April 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Is she listed in the cast at the end of the film? I've looked through that list as it scrolls up but never noticed her name before. Christophee (talk) 23:21, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Cruciatus Curse?
It says in the fourth year category that Hermionie stood up for Neville who was under the Cruciatus Curse. But he wasn't, actually. He was just horrified by Crouch/Moody torturing a spider. Could someone change that? I would, but I'm a newly registered user, so...RolandaSmithson 05:36, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

It just means he was focusing on the curse a lot, not that he was actually being cursed. Dustin1998 15:43, September 3, 2011 (UTC)Dustin1998

Imperious Curse
WHY IS THIS PAGE IN THE CATEGORY OF PEOPLE IN THE IMPERIOUS CURSE? Were is the source? I suppose the nargles are behind it. 22:30, September 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Because in her 4th year when Barty Jr was impersonating Moody, in the 4th years first DADA class, the one where he goes over the 3 unforgiveable curses, he puts her under the curse and forces her to impersonate a squirrel, it isn't in the movie, but it is in the book. --<font face="Ariel" size="4" color="Purple" >BachLynn Gryffindorcrest.jpg(<font face="Monotype Corsiva" size="2" color="Purple">Accio! ) 22:52, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I read the book, but didn't remember that part. I suppose the nargles are behind it. 22:54, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Personality Change in sixth book. Why?
As most people who have researched already know, J. K. Rowling based Ron and Hermoine's love/hate relationship on the original archtype show for that trope, Ranma 1/2, and the relationship between the main characters, Ranma and Akane. Between the 3rd and 5th books, Lavender Brown disliked Ron a lot because he often made fun of Divination, and had no interest in him. However, her lovy-dovy personality came completely out of left field, and her personality was identical to one of the main characters of Ranma 1/2, Shampoo, who was completely lovy dovy on the main male character. This might have been just coincidence of course, if not for the fact of Cormac McLaggen, a new character also from the 6th book, was also an exact duplicate personality to another one of the main characters of Ranma 1/2, Tatewaki Kuno, who continously hit on the main female character. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 152.18.53.217 (talk • contribs).

And your source for this? Unless this is from an official interview or other canon source, it doesn't belong here. <font face="Monotype Corsiva" size="4" color="FF8000">Nick O'Demus 03:50, February 8, 2011 (UTC)

Death
There was a test screening for DH, and I think it was confirmed that Lavender died of the werewolf attack. I can´t find a good link, however. Can anyone heLp me?--Rodolphus 15:34, April 4, 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps in the film Lavender really dies. But is that canon? When I remember right, JKR said in an interview that she did not die and did not become a werewolf. I can't find the interview again but I find mentions of it on other sides. So what is right for this Wiki? Harry granger 19:34, April 5, 2011 (UTC)

If J.K. Rowling has said that she did not die then she did not die. She does die in the film though. I can verify.
 * I haven't been able to find any interview by J.K.R. confirming whether she dies or not. -Smonocco 22:35, April 5, 2011 (UTC)

If JKR hasn´t said anything about Lavender surviving, her death is canon.--Rodolphus 12:30, April 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * My two cents: If the only source for this is a test screening, then this is a bit premature. Not everything from test screenings makes it into the final theatrical cut, particularly if the part gets enough negative feedback. Unless there's another source that this WILL be in the theatrical cut, then I think this should be limited to a BTS mention until the film's release. - <font face="Monotype Corsiva" size="4" color="FF8000">Nick O'Demus 00:18, April 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * I have to agree with Nick on this, I think we should avoid adding too much from the film as canon until the theatrical cut has been released. --<font face="Vivaldi" size="5" color="Purple" >BachLynn (<font face="Monotype Corsiva" size="2" color="Purple">Send an Owl! ) 01:25, April 8, 2011 (UTC)

Wasn´t it policy that even if something is cut, it is still canon until contradicted? (Su Li and other students in Harry's year, Bathsheda Babbling, the Hogwarts Laundry) --Rodolphus 12:12, April 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * That also depends on the reason why it was cut. Cut for time, or because it wasn't particularly relevant to the immediate story, then still likely canon. Cut because the writers/director/producer decided to spare the character instead of killing them off, then not canon. A test screening is just that, a test. Based on how the audience reacts, they may decide to change a few things. For all we know, in the theatrical release Lavender's death scene is dropped and instead we see her sitting at a table in the Great Hall in the celebration after the Battle. I'm just saying that while what is in the test screening makes it probable she'll die, it's still 3 more months before we see the finished product, and this may be jumping the gun a bit. - <font face="Monotype Corsiva" size="4" color="FF8000">Nick O'Demus 12:45, April 8, 2011 (UTC)

You´re right. Okay, I agree.--Rodolphus 12:48, April 8, 2011 (UTC)

No, Lavender doesn't die in canon. She may die in the films, but according to the book, she was just badly injured by Greyback and was unconcious after falling from the balcony, but ultimately survived. If she had died, then they would have mentioned it when Harry was saying the names of who died, such as Fred, Tonks, Remus and Colin. But if Lavender does die, she dies only in the movies.

I agree we should leave this stuff out until the finished product hits cinemas. I also think the DH: Part 2 article needs further protection, as it's currently a hotbed for people adding the "differences" that were revealved at the test screening, which may or may not turn out to be true. Jayden Matthews 07:21, April 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * It would appear as though consensus at the present time is to leave information about her death out of the article, as it is speculative. and i agree. when the movie comes out, information may change, and we can note that change then. but as for now, we should leave it out. The Knights Who Say Ni 05:37, April 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree we currently do not have sufficient information to confirm whether she dies in Part 2 or not. I've removed mentions of her possible death from the article, as including at this point was jumping the gun. <font color="Green">&#x2605; <font face="Times" color="green">S <font face="Times" color="dimgrey">t <font face="Times" color="green">a <font face="Times" color="dimgrey">r <font face="Times" color="green">s <font face="Times" color="dimgrey">t <font face="Times" color="green">u <font face="Times" color="dimgrey">f <font face="Times" color="green">f <font face="Times" color="darkgreen">(Owl me!) 07:57, April 19, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with what was said below. Since Lavender wasn't mestioned as one of those who died in the book, meaning she most likely, if not definately survived the Battle of Hogwarts, but she dies in the films, it should be put as a Behind the Scenes, since the books are canon.

I think we should wait until the second film is released. There is a possibility that they don't let Lavender die. Perhaps they only wanted to test the reaction of the viewers if they would accept it or not. We can put it in the BTS when we know for sure. Harry granger 20:23, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

Death in Films
I think it should be put in the behind the scenes that although Lavender did not die in the book she dies in the film of Deathly Hallows Part 2. 86.152.241.183 18:55, April 21, 2011 (UTC)C.N.MalfoyfromHarryPotterFanonWiki


 * We're actually not certain if she really did survive in the book, since the last mention of her is just after Greyback's attack, she is "feebly stirring". I've added the mention in Behind the Scenes about the test screening, and we'll wait until the film's final theatrical cut to see if her death is kept in or if it's been cut. - <font face="Monotype Corsiva" size="4" color="FF8000">Nick O'Demus 05:35, April 22, 2011 (UTC)

True, we don't now what happened to her after the battle, but she obviously survived if Harry didn't mention her as on of the dead. I mean, they would have mentioned her name if she had died, they mention Colin Creevey's. If she dies in the movies, it should be put as a Behind the Scenes.


 * I honestly don´t think Harry mentioned everyone he knew. Imagine you read: like Fred, Lupin, Tonks, Colin, Elphias Doge, Hestia Jones, Madam Rosmerta, Padma Patil, Professor Sinistra, Nigel, Romilda Vane... and a wizard he didn´t know. It seems very likely Rowling thought some were not worth mentioning.--Rodolphus 09:44, April 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * What Rodolphus said. There are at least 50 unnamed dead defenders, and a roll-call of everybody would have unnecessarily dragged on the pacing of the ending. Harry named those whose deaths affected him the most, and he and Lavender were never that close. And Colin's death WAS significant to Harry. Here was someone who had practically worshiped Harry for years, who had bent over backwards trying to earn his friendship, but who Harry had always brushed off as an annoyance. And then Harry sees that Colin died for his sake. It's one more emotional gut-punch.


 * I believe the overall consensus is that if Lavender dies in the film, then it's canon (unless JKR gives another interview or puts something on her website which says otherwise). We just need to see if this makes it from the test screening to the final theatrical cut. - <font face="Monotype Corsiva" size="4" color="FF8000">Nick O'Demus 10:16, April 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * It's possible Lavender wasn't mentioned among the dead in the book because she was still clinging to life at that point and only succumbed to her injuries later on. <font color="Green">★ <font face="Times" color="green">S <font face="Times" color="dimgrey">t <font face="Times" color="green">a <font face="Times" color="dimgrey">r <font face="Times" color="green">s <font face="Times" color="dimgrey">t <font face="Times" color="green">u <font face="Times" color="dimgrey">f <font face="Times" color="green">f <font face="Times" color="darkgreen">(Owl me!) 20:50, April 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * True, but then why not just mention alraedy that Lavender had died when Harry and the others passed by her, or during the 1 hour interval of battle. I'm sorry, I understand that you guys think of it as canon if she dies in the films, you have a point, but I just don't believe it happened in the book, therefore it is non-canon in my opinion.


 * As a matter of fact, policy states that if they are different, what happens in the books always takes precedence over what happened in the movies. Starstuff - were you suggesting that as an idea to enter into the page? b/c it's too speculative to include. The Knights Who Say Ni 01:16, April 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * I wasn't proposing it as something to add to the article. It was intended as a response to the suggestion made on this talk page that we can say with certainty that Lavender survived in the book because she isn't specifically named as one of the dead. Not all deaths are fast or instantaneous. Lavender was mauled and fell off a balcony, so it's conceivable she was bleeding internally, but not massively enough to die quickly. Like Montgomery, another one of Greyback's victims, she may have died at St. Mungo's.


 * I don't mean to argue that this is what actually happened behind the scenes in the book. Only give a reason why we shouldn't interpret Lavender not being mentioned among the dead in the Great Hall in the book as conclusive evidence of her survival. The book is silent as to the question of whether she lived or died. <font color="Green">★ <font face="Times" color="green">S <font face="Times" color="dimgrey">t <font face="Times" color="green">a <font face="Times" color="dimgrey">r <font face="Times" color="green">s <font face="Times" color="dimgrey">t <font face="Times" color="green">u <font face="Times" color="dimgrey">f <font face="Times" color="green">f <font face="Times" color="darkgreen">(Owl me!) 07:59, April 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * It would make sense for Lavender to die of injuries. Only that what would be the point of JK killing off Lavender if she wasn't going to reveal it. Why not just say at once that Lavender was killed off at the moment Greyback attacked her. And the test screen shows that Lavender that as early as during the hour long break of the Battle of Hogwarts. So she couldn't have died after Greyback's attack.


 * I think the point is, though, that while she may not be expressly listed among the deaths, she's also not expressly listed among the survivors. As has been said, the last time she's ever mentioned in the novels, she's still alive, but very seriously injured. Whether she ultimately lives or dies after this is not established in the book. Now, if McGonagall, Neville, or Draco were to die in the film, THAT would be non-canon.


 * Basically, ever since Deathly Hallows was first published, we've been going off the assumption that any named character who wasn't listed among the dead likely survived the battle. However, this assumption only persists until the issue is clarified by another canonical source, such as the films. - <font face="Monotype Corsiva" size="4" color="FF8000">Nick O'Demus 13:45, April 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * Just because she isn't listed as one of the survivors doesn't mean she died. I mean, that would be like saying that last we heard from Seamus Finnigan was before the battle, so he may have died. I believe that what JK Rowling meant when listing the dead was that only Fred, Lupin, Tonks, Colin, and 50 minor characters who we never heard of had died. Not minor characters such as Lavender or Padma.


 * Please reread my previous post. I just said we were going off the assumption that any named character who wasn't listed among the dead likely survived the battle. However, this is still just an assumption, not canonical fact. And if it's not clearly established one way or the other in Tier 1 canon, then it falls to Tier 2.


 * And as far as Seamus is concerned, yes we are assuming he survived, as he's not named among the dead, but since that part before the battle is the last we hear of him in the novels, and since nothing has been said by JKR in any interviews (yet), then whether he lives or dies in the film would be considered canon as well. - <font face="Monotype Corsiva" size="4" color="FF8000">Nick O'Demus 14:34, April 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * I would just like to say that Seamus did survive. Harry saw him sitting with Dean and Professor Slughorn after the battle. And Hannah Abbott and him were saved by Harry from Voldemort, and presumabley none from the good side died after that. Alumeng 00:25, September 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * I would just like to say that Seamus did survive. Harry saw him sitting with Dean and Professor Slughorn after the battle. And Hannah Abbott and him were saved by Harry from Voldemort, and presumabley none from the good side died after that. Alumeng 00:25, September 7, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, sorry for misreading it. Okay, but didn't someone above just state that JKR said in an interview taht Lavender didn't die nor become a werewolf? In my opinion the Tier 2 should be Rowling's interview. Wouldn't it seem more likely that Lavender survived rather than died in the book? I think we should just simply put it as a behind the scenes if she dies in the films. And besides JK will be publishing an encyclopedia one day, then we can know for sure if hshe died during the battle. And about the reaction thingy, if that was the case, then wouldn't Ron have reacted a bit to Lavender's death? I mean, sure Fred also died and that was significant, but he would've reacted to Lavender too.

If Rowling really said it, it is canon, but we need a link to the interview. And perhaps Ron reacted, but didn´t tell Harry.--Rodolphus 15:42, April 23, 2011 (UTC)

Alright, but Harry would've noticed if Ron reacted to Lavender's death. Can't we just put it as a Behind the Scenes until we hear it from JKR?

Listen I found a site with an interview with JK that, although it doesn't it, leads us to believe that Fred, Lupin, Tonks, and Colin were the only ones that died.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20001720/

In case you can't find the question,, it's below:

Jackson: Is there anything you wish you had or hadn't written in Harry Potter-- mainly deaths?

J.K. Rowling: I-- no, the deaths were all very, very considered. I don't kill even fictional characters lightly. So I don't regret any of them. There are minor plot things that I-- I would change going back. I'd certainly-- edit Phoenix a bit better because it's-- I think it's too long.

I mean, if she doesn't kill her characters lightly, then why kill one and not mention it. I'm just telling you.

Um, I watched the film today and Lavender finally dies in the film. I think the book should be considered more cannon. Charmedthree 21:51, July 13, 2011 (UTC)

As I said before: The book doesn´t state she survives, so she dies, per film canon. Rodolphus 16:12, July 15, 2011 (UTC)

Listen, I know she dies in the film and that we don't know what happens to her in the book. But even in the film, the way she gets injuried is different from that of the book, she doesn't fall of a balcony. So, if it isn't asking too much, could we please at least put that her fate in the book as unknown but that she died in the film. Please....

There is no need to conflate book canon with movie canon. No one in fandom has ever done that--it is understood that movie canon WILL differ from book canon, especially when things in the movie deviate so much from the books. Lavender's body is "feebly stirring" in the book and Greyback is blasted away from her before he even gets to "sink his teeth in her" like he does in the movie. Re-reading the passage (pp. 646 of the U.S. paperback) might clarify things for you. But in the movie, Greyback's already taken a bite out of her when Hermione blasts him off of her; it's too late, Lavender is already wide-eyed and not moving. ParryHotterHero 01:06, July 17, 2011 (UTC)

I usually don't like to get involved in these matters, but I feel that I must. JKR was a producer of the film, and anything that serious would have ran by her. I also reread the American edition, and it is implied that she basically "twitched" and died from her injuries. Secondly Ron was traumatized by Fred's death really to care much about his ex-girlfriend, and he was not there at the time of the attack, he would have found out much later. Although I personally believe book canon overrides movies canon, I think in this case, JKR and the film makers basically confirmed her death, because in reality if it hasn't been mentioned by JKR by now, it would have probably never been confirmed otherwise.--Lemursrule 03:29, July 18, 2011 (UTC)

Not necessarily. JK Rowling said in an interview that canonically, Neville ends up with Hannah and Luna with Rolf Scamander, and that there was never any romance between the two. But in the film, there is a romance between the Neville and Luna despite not being canon. JK Rowling also said herself that she considers the films a separate entity from the books, and that she would only intervene in something in the movie if it would affect the plot, so that doesn't mean Lavender's dead.

At the end of the day, the books and movies are different canons so we can't use one as evidence for the other. We don't know if she dies in the book - feebly stirring doesn't mean anything on its own, so we say we just don;t know, simple as. If she dies in the film she dies in the film.Green Zubat 20:59, July 18, 2011 (UTC)

I also think book canon and movie canon should be considered separately. Otherwise, Padma Patil would be in two houses :P So in the book, her fate is unknown, while in the movies, she is confirmed dead (see later scene with Padma and Professor Trelawney covering her body) --Hugo patil 09:48, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

^^^^What both Green Zubat and Hugo Patil said. And nowhere did it say that Lavender "twitched" and died in the books. It's just not there, and I ave both the UK and USA hardcover editions. Movie canon should just not be conflated with book canon, because the movies are adaptations written by Steve Kloves (Michael Goldenberg, for OotP). Screen adaptations of books are always going to take liberties with its source material, be it for pace, structure or assigning enough screentime and lines between main character actors (with this series, Kloves gave a whole lot of other peoples' lines to Emma Watson, but we are certainly not going to consider any of that canon; when someone asks us about that "Fear of a name..." quote, we're going to say that it was said by Albus Dumbledore, not Hermione Granger like it was in the film). ParryHotterHero 16:57, September 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * See discussion below, under "My improved theory". -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 18:48, September 15, 2011 (UTC)

Possibly Part-Werewolf?
I think we should change her species to: Human, Part-Werewolf (possibly). I mean, she was attacked by Fenrir Greyback. Until we get confirmation at least, because the same happened to Bill, and his page says that he is part-werewolf, so maybe a change should be good

Balian311 08:03, April 24, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, it should be the opposite. Since we haven't had a confirmation of what happened, we should keep her as human.

She appears in Order of the Pheonix film at the Gryffindor Table and at the meeting at the Hogs Head she is played by Tabatha St. Vincent; she has blondish brownish hair and she looks around about Harry's Year.

But she died from her injuries, so it doesn't really matter if we put her as Part-Werewolf, right? Francesca 19:40, July 15, 2011 (UTC)

LAVENDER never dies :( luckily in the movie, it did show her dead... I was laughing so hard when I saw her on the floor lying there, with tears down her face... she did die :)JKeil 18:59, July 17, 2011 (UTC)

If Lavender's still alive, she wouldn't be werewolf anyways. It wasn't a full moon during the battle, so she would have the same situation as Bill Weasley. Alumeng 00:22, September 7, 2011 (UTC)

Lavender's death
In The Deathly Hallows: Part 2, Professor Trelawney is shown with another student, pulling a sheet over a dead Lavender. So sad.


 * Trelawney pulled a sheet over Lavender's corpse? I may be wrong, but wasn't it over the body of an unidentified female teacher (see this image)? -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 18:41, July 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * In my opinion Lavender was killed by Fenrir, who was eating her. User:Domynyk 20:44, July 20, 2011, (UTC)

i disagree the npdy that padma and sybill brought in was that unamed teacher im sure they wouldve mentioned it Ron did briefly date her.......... Hes not heartless.

forgot my sigUser:MinxelfinforeverI Love Boulderon|User talk:Minxelfinforeve 08:05, July 21, 2011 (UTC)

She was killed in the film, in Maximum Movie Mode on the DH2 BluRay, she said David Yates told her a few days ahead of time that Lavender would die. I personally think it was an idiotic move, but hey, I'm just a fan, not a filmmaker. AlwaysHalfBloodPrince 02:52, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Why is Lavender Black for the first few films?
Why is Lavender Brown, Black in the first few movies. I get its magic and all, I just doubt that Magic could change your race. ARCWorker 22:26, July 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * Because the filmmakers cast an actress with African ancestry to play her in the first three films. Lavender, in the books, is a caucasian witch, as depicted in the films starting with Half-Blood Prince. -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 22:29, July 24, 2011 (UTC)

Lavender's Death in the movie.S
Shouldn't it be stated at least in the behind the scene's that she dies in the movie? It shows where feneir greyback had bitten her neck and she was dead when harry killed him in the movie. So shouldn't it be stated she dies in the movie even though she doesn't die in the book?

That was freaky,Wolfdude was munching on her.(Hangingmanpeter0 05:39, August 27, 2011 (UTC))

I think she may be dead, but in the movie, Neville says the name of every important character which was killed, and Lavender isn't among them. Also, in the book, they also name some of the most important characters. They even name Colin Creevey, but not Lavender.


 * The Harry Potter Wiki treats Lavender's death in the film as canon since the book doesn't say whether she survived. However, if JKR reveals that Lavender lived at some point in the future (perhaps through Pottermore), this would override the films, since JKR and the books are considered the highest source of canon under this wiki's canon policy. <font color="Green">★ <font face="Times" color="green">S <font face="Times" color="dimgrey">t <font face="Times" color="green">a <font face="Times" color="dimgrey">r <font face="Times" color="green">s <font face="Times" color="dimgrey">t <font face="Times" color="green">u <font face="Times" color="dimgrey">f <font face="Times" color="green">f <font face="Times" color="darkgreen">(Owl me!) 01:39, September 4, 2011 (UTC)

Not exactly. Just because something happens in the film doesn't mean it's canon, EVEN if JKR didn't state it in the book. We should but that her fate is unknown. If what happened in the movie were canon, then Lavender would've fallen off a balcony and not have been bitten by Greyback. Thus, we should put her fate as unknown.

Hey, I just thought of something. We spent the whole time saying that Lavender probably died because of the films and JKR didn't specify that she lived. How would she? Would she say "and fifty other Hogwartians who had died fighting him that night. And Lavender Brown survived."? She obviously wouldn't do that. She must have assumed that we'd deduct that she survived since she wasn't listed among those who died.

David Yates said that they cut a scene where it showed lavender brown being helped by Romilda Vane and Alicia Spinnet, so she didn't die otherwise why would Romilda and Alicia even bother trying to save her? and that person who Parvati/Padma and Trelawney cover up in DH2 isn't her it may be the other Patil twin or one of the 50 unnamed deaths that is mentioned in the novels, it isn't however Lavender Brown! 1258brun 20:27, November 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * If you could provide a reliable source that Yates did, indeed, say that, it would be great. -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 20:45, November 22, 2011 (UTC)

Why i dont think she died
In the movie it stated she was stirring. She wasn't that much of an important character, but she was a significant person in Ron's life. If she did die he would atleast mention it. Like another user said they mentioned Colin who had a even smaller roll than Lavender. So my opinion she did not die. Hope you take it into consideration.

I agree with the above.

My improved theory
'Ok so there has been a lot of editing changing Lavender's life status to dead (which i have been reverting,but im stopping). There is absouletly no proof. In the movie they showed Greyback close to her neck. Greyback got blasted out of a window, and I may be wrong, but I never saw him after that. Now movies tend to cut out a bunch of parts. In this situation Lavender was just on the ground and Greyback was going to bite her. Where in the book Lavender and Greyback fell from the balcony and Greyback was GOING to bite her before Hermione shot him with a spell then Trelawney hit him with a crystal ball. In the book Greyback never touched her after they fell in the movie he was just close to her neck. Now heres another thought Greyback likes to turn children into werewolves especially YOUNG GIRLS! Now there was no full moon on that date he could have left her with lycanthropic traits like Bill or JKR would have a full moon on the date simply because she could do that in her book. Now to the game, in the game Fenrir was holding her then pushed her and seem like she was trying to get up. Then you play as Hermione in and fight Greyback now in the game if you take your time fighting him in the backround you can see a person duelling a snatcher or death eater. How I found out is they casted the protego charm which was very easy to see since everything was black and grey. Now I thought this could be Lavender since Harry and Ron left. Another thing is I am sure Jo would have mentioned her dieing through Ron or when Harry listes the fallen. Even Colin was announced dead and Lavender had a much bigger role than him. You guys can leave your opinions below and don't just say she is dead because you dont like her i like her she was just a kid in love and was very excited about it. Hermione didnt hate her she directed her anger towards Ron and when they broke up she spared her feelings. User:MinxelfinforeverI Love Boulderon|User talk:Minxelfinforever 21:16, September 11, 2011 (UTC)'


 * First of all, Greyback is clearly seen maiming (literally gnawing her) Lavender in the film. Given her lack of resistance (i.e. absence of any physical attempts to make Greyback back off such as kicking or squirming), screams of pain, and any reaction whatsover (not to mention the fact she is visibly not breathing; her chest does not go up nor down when there's a close shot of her) it is highly implied she is, indeed, dead in the film. The book leaves her fate unclear. She was indeed attacked by Greyback, but we lack any closure of what happened next (the scene is interrupted by the arrival of the Acromantulas, and we do not hear again of Lavender).
 * So those are the facts: the book leaves her fate unclear, never ruling out the possibility of her dying (do note that an omission is not a statement in any way); and the film shows she died as a result of the attack. Now, according to our canon policy, information from the films that does not directly affect or contradict the literary canon can and should be treated as canon itself. This information from the film does not contradict the book's version of events in any way and is, by definition, a valid canon fact as far as this wiki is concerned.
 * It's not a matter of what characters you like and what characters you don't; it's a matter of applying and enforcing our current canon policy. -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 23:48, September 11, 2011 (UTC)

I never said i count her living because I like her though what you mainly talked about was the movie Fenrir also was assumed dead since he didnt show up after Hermione casted the spell at him.User:MinxelfinforeverI Love Boulderon|User talk:Minxelfinforever 00:55, September 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * Greyback is a different case. While in the film Hermione blasts him down the ravine (and presumably his death), this does directly contradict the book. In the book, Hermione blasts him against the marble bannisters of the Marble Staircase, and he is knocked unconscious. He later is seen fighting in the Great Hall shortly prior to Voldemort's defeat. -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 13:20, September 12, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, but shouldn't her life status be presumed living since the books out rule the movieUser:MinxelfinforeverI Love Boulderon|User talk:Minxelfinforever 13:32, September 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * No, because the books leave her fate uncertain. Sure, she was "feebly stirring", but what happened next? The film is the next valid canon source, as set forth in our canon policy, and as Lavender's death does not directly contradict the book it can and ought to be considered canon. -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 13:43, September 12, 2011 (UTC)

What about the video game.......... I was playing it (still am) and in the chapter "The Battle of Hogwarts" when you are defending Hermione so she can open the door they're seems to be a full moon. I don't know if they implied that so Fenrir can be in full werewolf form or not. Though i do think the video game should be counts as a source as well--User:MinxelfinforeverI Love Boulderon|User talk:Minxelfinforever 15:01, September 12, 2011 (UTC)

,and if you count her as dead shouldn't Fenrir be counted dead, because he hit the staircase then he was "brought" down by Ron, and Neville. He was never seen after that it was unknown if he survived, and it was also unknown in the movie User:MinxelfinforeverI Love Boulderon|User talk:Minxelfinforever 15:04, September 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * The video game is third-tier canon. If the games contradict the films (which are second-tier canon), then films take precendence, according to the canon policy. According to the book (which is first-tier), it could not have been full moon: Lupin, along with Kingsley and Mr. Weasley, were in charge of taking groups of fighters (mostly students, Order members and teachers) out into the grounds. It is highly unlikely Lupin would be sent out to do so, even with a Wolfsbane Potion the sudden transformation of a man into a werewolf would be potentially problematic to the operation (raising panic and whatnot). Besides, he was later seen by Aberforth and he was duelling Dolohov; wolves can't handle wands.
 * Regarding Greyback, he was not definitely killed in Battle ("brought down" is ambiguous: could either mean killed, Stunned, or even physically attacked). Greyback's death in the film is, however, not canon. The book specifically says he did not die after Lavender's attack. The book overrides the film. -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 18:14, September 12, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, but Greyback wasn't mentioned after they "brought him down down" just like Lavender wasn't mentioned after she fell from the balcony, and was seen stirring.--User:MinxelfinforeverI Love Boulderon|User talk:Minxelfinforever 19:50, September 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * Greyback wasn't mentioned after that, so we don't know exactly what happened to him after the duel in the Great Hall. But we know this for sure: the film's depiction of him being thrown from a window into a ravine hours prior to the duel in which he was "brought down" is not canon. -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 18:06, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

It was mentioned that she was "visibly not breathing" in that close-up shot of her, but that shot only lasted about 2 seconds or less.


 * It lasts long enough to see that her chest is still. Besides, if she was ok, after an attack of that violence, she would be breathing heavily. -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 21:19, September 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * It think that since in the book Greyback is only 'bending over her', not eating her and the fact she is 'stirring' (which has connotations of being alive, moving about, awakening etc.) she should be alive. In the film she is not stirring at all, and therefore contradicts the book, which says she's still moving. Also Trelawney doesn't react like she would if her favourite pupil had just died, she seems confiedent, like she has saved a life.


 * Please change it back I hate it when thie wiki is inaccurate. Adiposefriend 21:26, September 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree, I think sometimes you've got to remember that the filmmakers just make stuff up and Jo says yes because it's not integeral to the plot, like all the death eaters being able to fly and stuff. and the word stirring does suggest movement, and recovery Colincreevaz 21:44, September 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * Correction: Greyback "[sunk his] teeth into one of the fallen", per the book. In the book, Lavender is "feebly stirring" during the attack, no description of her is made after Greyback is knocked out. Our canon policy, allows (nay, instructs) to go by the film when the book gives no information. Besides, there are multiple ways to interpret Trelawney's shrieks: frustration on what they've done to Lavender; an attempt to avenge her (Trelawney never saved Lavender's life, Hermione did. Trelawney merely threw a crystal ball to Greyback's head when he was getting back to his feet). -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 22:01, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, but how do you know she was trying to revenge her and not make sure he was knocked out? The others agree with me I dont see why you don't. You have all these logical responses and I contradict them, and they are right the film makers make up stuff. Jo could say yes to whatever because in that case it is whats going to make more money, and if Lavender laying down on the the floor would make the scene interesting, more dramatic, or intense, then by all means they would do that.User:MinxelfinforeverI Love Boulderon|User talk:Minxelfinforever 23:39, September 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think it should say something like "possibly dead" as she is neither confirmed to be dead in the book or the movie (though she appears dead she isn't neccesarily...) with a reference note attached explaining. It is left quite ambigous in the books and I think this would be the best way to handle it; but just a suggestion. Pack Alpha of Europe 23:48, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

I do not think Lavender is dead. In the BOOK, after Greyback was blasted away by Hermione, it said Lavender was "feebly stirring" so I think she didn't die, but she will be like Bill and have wolfish characteristics because he attacked her while still in human form. We do not know if she died or not and I don't think her dying in the movie is canon. Maybe we will find out in Pottermore. Gryffindor1991 00:05, September 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * It is not whether you like it or not, it is about enforcing our current canon policy. I can definitely see your point of view, I personally was shocked to see Lavender die in the film (in a "that-wasn't-mentioned-in-the-book" sort of way), but it's the policy and we have to go with it. The book is ambiguous over what happened, and the film gives us some closure. Simple as that. -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 00:12, September 14, 2011 (UTC)

I still don't agree. I know its your policy, but there has to be some way to get by it a lot of people don't agre..... User:MinxelfinforeverI Love Boulderon|User talk:Minxelfinforever 00:56, September 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * "A lot of people" do not constitute a valid canon source. If "a lot of people" suddenly decided Voldemort did not die after all and he managed to kill Harry Potter, achieve immortality and rule the wizarding world, would that make it canon? It wouldn't, of course. So is the matter of Lavender. -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 01:02, September 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * I still think the movie leaves it somewhat ambigous (as the book does obviously); my sister--also an avid Potter fan--didn't think Lavender was actually dead until I pointed out that she looked dead. So I think it should not be put as a confirmed fact rather as a high possibility. Pack Alpha of Europe 01:20, September 14, 2011 (UTC)

Voldemort's death was certain. Lavender's isn't which is why I still don't think shes deadUser:MinxelfinforeverI Love Boulderon|User talk:Minxelfinforever 01:31, September 14, 2011 (UTC)

Cooper, I understand what you're saying about the canon policy. But the truth is JK Rowling most likely didn't kill Lavender in the book. The book, which I am holding right now, specifically states, and I quote, "Two bodies fell from the balcony overhead as they reached the ground a grey blur that Harry took for an animal sped four-legged across the hall to sink its teeth into one of the fallen. "NO!" shrieked Hermione, and with a deafening blast from her wand, Fenrir Greyback was thrown backward from the feebly struggling body of Lavender Brown. He hit the marble banisters and struggled to return to his feet. Then, with a bright white flash and a crack, a crystal ball fell on top of his head, and he crumpled to the ground and did not move. "I have more!" shrieked Professor Trelawney from over the banisters, "more for any who want them! Here-"" The book says that all that happened to Lavender was that she fell from the balcony. Hermione blasted Greyback away before he could bite her and Lavender was seen stirring AFTER Greyback was blasted away. Also, if Lavender HAD been one of the casualties, what would have stopped JKR from putting her name on the list when Harry was identifying those who died such as Fred, Lupin, Tonks, and even Colin. I mean, Harry identified Colin as having died but not Lavender, who played a much bigger role in the books? Jo could have simply put Lavender's name in the list of deceased. All JKR had to do was put Lavender's name there. But she didn't because obviously it was meant for Lavender to survive and she thought we'd catch onto that. The fact that Lavender is also stirring after the attack shows that she's alive. That's why I don't consider the movie canon, first, Greyback never bit her, and he was never sent out a window, plus the fact that Lavender isn't moving. Lavender isn't mentioned as one of the casualties, she's feebly stirring, I think that's all evidence from JK that Lavender survived. So Mr. Cooper, can we please change the status that says Lavender died during the battle. If your canon policy doesn't allow you to confirm that she survived, then at least put fate as unknown. But I can tell you that in canon, she didn't die.


 * Look here, Lavender's fate in the book is unclear. It is never even hinted she survived. An ommission of her death does not count as a statement against her death. For all we know, Harry might not be even aware of Lavender's death (they didn't even have an opportunity to check if she was alright, as the Acromantulas stormed into the Entrance Hall just after Greyback's attack). Besides, there are loads of things that weren't mentioned in the books, but were canon regardless of that (Elphinstone Urquart, anyone?). All this to say that an omission is not a statement of anything.
 * For those of you who say Greyback never got to bite Lavender, the book is, again, ambiguous. All the book says is "a gray blur [Greyback] that Harry took for an animal sped four-legged across the hall to sink its teeth into one of the fallen [Lavender]." The preposition "to", while it may have been used by Rowling to indicate Greyback's purpose, it may also be used to indicate result of action. If that is the case, Greyback did, indeed, bite Lavender. Per the canon policy, when the book is ambiguous we have to abide to the next higher canon tier: the films, which show Lavender being gnawned by Greyback.
 * Jo Rowling never directly says Lavender didn't die. Sure, she says Lavender was "feebly stirring" but when does that mean she did not succumb to her injuries? It doesn't. Again, per the canon policy, we have to go by the films. Now, you may be thinking "but the movie is ambiguous too!". Apart from the highly visible on-screen implications that she is dead (see one of my posts above), Jessie Cave, the actress who plays Lavender has been interviewed on the matter:


 * She couldn't give away in detail what was going to happen (as this was prior to the release of the film), but add what she says to what you see in the movie, and what she means cannot be any plainer. -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 14:52, September 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think any could question the intention of the film makers, which is clearly to have Lavender die. The question is whether or not their intention contradicts the book, which, in my opinion, it does. Yes, she could have succumbed to her injuries, but such an assumption is not supported by any source, including the film, which depicts her as being dead at the scene and does not show her stirring, as she does in the book. In this case the film directly contradicts the book, albeit in a very small way. So no, I don't think her death is canon. Jayden Matthews 15:27, September 14, 2011 (UTC)

The most telling sign that Lavender was supposed to be dead in the film, for me, was the fact she wasn't blinking or moving her eyes around — the proverbial "light" had gone out of them and she was vacantly staring into space.

I'm on the fence about whether the book's text indicates Greyback succeeded in mauling her ("to sink its teeth into one of the fallen" could go either way, as Seth has pointed out), but I think that the fall from the balcony, in and of itself, could've caused severe enough injuries to prove fatal. Obviously, the fall didn't kill her on impact because she was seen "feebly stirring" after it, but she could've suffered internal bleeding and died later on. She isn't mentioned as being among the dead in the Great Hall, but she isn't mentioned as receiving treatment or observing the final showdown between Harry and Voldemort, either, and JKR hasn't revealed her future in any interview (it's worth noting that she revealed the fates of Cho and Krum, also former love interests of Trio members). Thus Lavender's ultimate fate is unclear in the books.

From what I remember of the movie, Lavender was shown lying at the bottom of a pile of rubble, so it's possible that in the movie's sequence of events she fell out of the building when a part of it collapsed. Greyback then 1) found her already-dead body and mutilated it (it is implied in the books that he's got cannibalistic tendencies), or 2), found her injured and finished her off.

The film's sequence of events does differ from that of the book. We should consider the book's sequence of events (Lavender falling off a balcony, Hermione blasting away Greyback, Trelawney dropping the crystal ball) to be canon because the books and JKR's personal statements are our highest canon sources. But the book is ambiguous on whether Lavender survived, leaving room for other canon sources to fill in the blanks, which the last film does. Thus we carefully reconcile the book's sequence of events to the ultimate outcome shown in the film. <font color="Green">★ <font face="Times" color="green">S <font face="Times" color="dimgrey">t <font face="Times" color="green">a <font face="Times" color="dimgrey">r <font face="Times" color="green">s <font face="Times" color="dimgrey">t <font face="Times" color="green">u <font face="Times" color="dimgrey">f <font face="Times" color="green">f <font face="Times" color="darkgreen">(Owl me!) 17:27, September 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * But what would have stopped JKR from stating Lavender as one of the dead. JKR is the author of the book, all she simply had to do was add Lavender's name to the list of deceased and done. But she didn't in my opinion, because her intention wasn't to kill Lavender. And the reason why JKR revealed the fates of Cho and Krum were because PEOPLE ASKED ABOUT THOSE SPECIFIC CHARACTERS. No one asked about Lavender. And I'm sure I found an interview with JKR where she confirms Lavender's survival, I just can't remember where.

You know what, I'm writing a letter of JK Rowling asking if Lavender did survive. Once I get an answer, I'll tell you.


 * We're following our policy here. As of now, there is no confirmation that she survived (if you could find that interview and post it here, that'd be great). If Rowling ever says she didn't die, the case is settled, she didn't die. Without confirmation, we have to go by the films. -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 21:44, September 14, 2011 (UTC)

The Snitch Seeker thing was talking about the film. This is just so irritating! Um, I'm gonna look for proof interviews from JKR, her only. User:MinxelfinforeverI Love Boulderon|User talk:Minxelfinforever 22:00, September 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * Just for my two cents' worth, I'd prefer to err on the side of caution, and while the film certainly implies that Lavender is dead, implication is not the same as confirmation, especially considering that 1) as was mentioned, it's a very brief shot of her, and 2) there are other definite contradictions with the book in that scene (location of the attack and Greyback's possible death). If there's an interview someone can cite where the actors or filmmakers actually say she's dead, or maybe something in a commentary when the DVD/Blu-Ray comes out (i.e. Jessie Cave saying "Here's my death scene!"), I think that confirmation would tilt it in favor of the "She's dead, Jim" position. Otherwise, this just seems to be turning into another Unidentified lethal curse debate. - <font face="Monotype Corsiva" size="4" color="FF8000">Nick O'Demus 06:00, September 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree. I believe Jessie Cave did give an interview where she reveals that Lavender doesn't end well. However, that's not really the point. The fact of the matter is the film cannot be reconciled with the book on this matter. In the book Greyback is blasted away from her stiring body, which is not the case in the film. Picking the scene apart and saying "well this bit is canon, but the rest isn't" is completely hypocritical, and defies the whole purpose of the canon policy. Jayden Matthews 11:40, September 16, 2011 (UTC)

Yes and the fact that Greyback NEVER touched her after she fell applies too, bookwise.


 * As I have already noted above, Rowling's choice of words for that episode in the novel leaves it unclear if Greyback bit her or not. Regardless, we seem not to be reaching any conclusions on this matter. I propose removing all references pertaining to her death or survival from the article, and add a note in the Behind the Scenes section explaining that it is unclear whether she survived or not (along with an explanation of the book/film/game differences on her attack by Greyback). -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 22:31, September 16, 2011 (UTC)

by all means do soUser:MinxelfinforeverI Love Boulderon|User talk:Minxelfinforever 01:53, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

I agree. Saying she's alive is just as non-canon as saying she's dead. "Fate uncertain" is the most appropraite line to take. Jayden Matthews 12:30, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

I have came to my final decision that she is indeed alive. The book left it vaguely clear she survived. She fell from the balcony, Fenrir tried to go bite her, Hermione blasted him with a spell, Trelawney throws a crystal ball at him, and Lavender is stirring. By the definition of stirring it has multiple meainings the ones fitting the situtation are moving, and a small movement. If you add feebly to each of the definitions (feebly moving,and small feeble movements.) They indicate signs of life, and no lethal or life-threatening harm. She could have sat up and felt dazed, or made small movements on the floor similiar to the video game. Also like those small movement you make when your sleeping. It is however most likely that she lived since she was already moving. I watched the scene on YouTube where she is seen in the movie, and when they show the close up on her body; I don't know if it's just me, but i see her stomach area moving faintly. She may also be unconcious. When the new Lego video comes out that will be my final reference to her well being since the Lego game are more accurate than the movies. I have also thought about her situation. She fell from the balcony, and it is unknown if Greyback harmed her before. We do not know how she landed, but in the movies it was on her side. If she did fall from the balcony (probably 12-15 ft. high) and landed on her side she would indeed be alive. If she fell on her side she could have broke her shoulder or arm, and if she fell on her feet(unlikely) it would have broke her ankle or another bone in her feet and she would have fell. So, falling from the balcony probably could not have killed her unless, she landed and hit her rib straight on breaking it and puncturing her lungs.Also, if she hit her head straight on (as if diving) which is higly unlikely. So, please tell me what you think! User:MinxelfinforeverI Love Boulderon|User talk:Minxelfinforever 08:10, October 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * SOLVING THE DEBATE: She's dead. Just confirmed in Harry Potter Page to Screen: The Complete Filmmaking Journey. Changing the page. <font color="Freestyle Script">LuciusMalfoy777.png Ministry Notifications 17:23, October 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * Could you provide a direct quote, or a scan? If it is, indeed, confirmed she died in the film, would this settle the debate? -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 17:49, October 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * I can provide a quote. For others who have the book, it's on page 215, if you'd like to provide a scan. Here's the quote:

"Jessie Cave was also happy to come back, even knowing that Lavender Brown wasn't going to survive the final film. 'She's not very lucky,' the actress understates. 'She doesn't meet a nice ending. She get's eaten by Fenrir Greyback.'" I think this should settle the debate, yes. This is the only thing in the book that should affect continuity, I think, but feel free to ask about anything else if you think there might be something.<font color="Freestyle Script"> Ministry Notifications 20:36, October 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * I thought she was confirmed dead already in the film (then again, I might be just my imagination), and only the book left her fate uncertain? I think that was the core of all this discussion, which will continue ad nauseam, with people quoting the book and others stating what was seen in the film.


 * My two cents are that somebody should just find a way to ask JK Rowling about the character's fate in the book continuity, so we could get it settled once and for all. So, yeah, if this wiki considers the film canon, unless the books directly contradict it, then stating her status as dead is the right option.


 * If someone considers only the books canon, she isn't, but that's up for the reader. I follow the latter, but that's just as a reader who follows only the books and book-related material, and as such I have to accept that the wiki and the other people think otherwise. So, everybody, just pick your poison, and stick to that in your minds. And sorry for the underline, but I want to avoid somebody thinking I'm just ranting against the wiki's policy. I accept it and propose an answer to the whole Book vs. Film problem. End of file.


 * Felix-157 15:25, October 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * I completely agree with you. In my mind, it's ridiculous that things other than JKR-written material are considered canonical by anyone, but that's the wiki's policy, so on this website at least, there should be no more quibbling about whether or not she's dead.
 * <font color="Freestyle Script">LuciusMalfoy777.png Ministry Notifications 19:14, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

Can't we vote to change the policy? The primary source is JK's i hardly think that the page to screen book should influence anything at all. They were discussing the movie and
 * Listen, I'm with you on this one. I think the policy should be "books and other JKR written/said material" only. I was shot down, but I still think a long discussion should take place. However, under THIS canon policy, right here and right now, Page to Screen is canonical. It isn't a book made up about the films, that wouldn't even make sense, it takes interviews and other material from the filmmakers and actors, which the last time I checked, are indeed canonical. The book leaves it ambiguous, but the film gives us closure, so therefore we MUST go with it.
 * <font color="Freestyle Script">LuciusMalfoy777.png Ministry Notifications 14:47, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Then lets have the long discussion take place! This needs to be changed! Besides, I think it's very unfair that Fenrir doesn't get this attention like Lavender does. We don't know if he lives or dies after Ron & Neville "bring him down" in the book, and he dies in the movie. So again LuciusMalfoy777 we should discuss with the administrators about this. Leave me a message when we can have the discussion--User:MinxelfinforeverI Love Boulderon|User talk:Minxelfinforever 21:37, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

NO! shrieked Hermione, and with a deafening blast from her wand Fenrir Greyback was thrown backwards from the feebly stirring body of Lavender Brown." He never ever touched her in the book! So, her injuries would only be from the fall and what ever cause it and since she was already moving it is HIGHLY likely she is indeed alive. Whereas in the movie we don't really know if Greyback was actually biting her since there was no blood on her neck. Some say she is not breathing. I studied the scene very closely. I couldn't make out if her chest was moving, but her neck was. Take a look at this gif:http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltiwnc1tac1qh05nio4_250.gif. So, again still debatable, but to those who consider the page to screen canonical I DON'T. So, don't mention it to me.User:MinxelfinforeverI Love Boulderon|User talk:Minxelfinforever 07:13, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

I may not be a verified user of this wiki, but I have used this wiki to double check information in the past and I agree with some of the other people here who say that the policy that things not in the book but in the movie that don't contradict the movie should be concidered canon. The only thing those things can be concidered is semi-canon or quasi-canon, unless it is from the "word of god" herself. Out of ALL the wikis I have used, THIS is the only one that has THIS kind of policy. All the others will note when something is Movie/Anime only in some shape or form. I highly doubt that I will be using the wiki anymore, even though it will take me much longer to double check the facts I am trying to look up. Because you know, that is what a wiki is for, double checking the facts of things. Really, would it HURT to say "in the movie" or "so and so said"?

Greater Picture
<p style="line-height: 1.5em; ">It is interesting that in a clever twist by the author, it is Hermione who saves Lavender from being mauled by Greyback, in spite of Lavender being in direct competition with Hermione for Ron's affections throughout the course of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince.

<p style="margin-top: 0.4em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; line-height: 1.5em; ">There is significant debate as to whether Greyback was in his Werewolf shape or not when Lavender was attacked; much of the debate appears on the talk page for that chapter. One major factor arguing against his being Transformed is the author's habit of never naming characters Harry has not been introduced to, and he has never seen Greyback transformed. The immediate identification of Greyback would imply strongly that Greyback is in his human shape. Against this, there is the description of Greyback as a "grey blur", and the fact that nothing in the text rules out Fenrir (and Lupin) being transformed. While it is true that that the given date for the battle of Hogwarts, May 2nd, 1998, according to the lunar calendar is not a full moon, we must discount this as evidence due to earlier lack of correlation between the Hogwarts lunar cycle and ours, as mentioned in Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban. Finally, however, it is mentioned elsewhere that Lupin met his death while dueling withDolohov, which would not be a description of what he was doing were he transformed. As we see in Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, however, Lupin does not transform until the light of the full moon actually hits him; despite the moon being fully up, he does not transform in the Shrieking Shack, only when he emerges from the tunnel, so it is just possible that he has somehow managed to battle the Death Eaters without ever being exposed to moonlight.- This piece of writing was not written from me. I found it on this site: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Muggles%27_Guide_to_Harry_Potter/Characters/Lavender_Brown[[User:Minxelfinforever]I Love Boulderon|User talk:Minxelfinforever 04:49, October 8, 2011 (UTC)]


 * Honestly, it does not end the debate. They were talking about the movie and it wasn't a written source from jkr
 * Our policy regarding canon is that if it comes from an officially licensed Harry Potter source, then it is acceptable, so long as it is not specifically contradicted by a higher source such as J.K. Rowling. Since this is an officially licensed source and J.K. Rowling has never said that she isn't dead, it is acceptable. ProfessorTofty 22:22, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

I think we should just let the author tell us herself what Lavender's true fate is instead of automatically assuming she dies just because it happened in the movie. Take Barty Crouch JR. for example. In the Books, a Dementor takes his soul by performing it's fatal kiss while in the Movies, he is simply returned to Azkaban.09MurphyM 02:03, November 22, 2011 (UTC)

My busy day trying to get a better view of Lavender's fate from a proffesional
Anyways, I spoke with a hospital doctor and a physics teacher and they both love the HP series. I questioned both of them whether a fall like that would be survivable. I assumed the balcony was about 12-15 ft. high. The physics teacher went into detail about what could happen and how they might land. He said since she had already been moving and the werewolf never harmed her she would be fine. The doctor said since the werewolf never bit her her injuries could have been the cost of her life. A punctured lung could've killed her, but since she was "stirring" it is likely she had a broken back. Which could be cured since they do have magic. They both think Lavender likely survived because if JKR intended her to die she would have been bitten or attacked. But since she fell from a balcony, she would more likely have broken bones than open wounds. Which could be fixed by magic. We also discussed the movie situation. I played the clip and neither of them thought Fenrir was actually biting her. The physics teacher thought he was sniffing her and the doctor thought he was examaning her. I spoke to a veterinarian about canine behavior and whether or not Fenrir would eat her. I let her know he was in a human form, but was imitating his werewolf side. I played her the clip and she said she noticed a pulse in her neck and she also said the only wolf she could think of off the top of her head was the gray wolf. Since Lavender didn't seem that dead to her neither lively she thought he was checking for life. She also included his liking for turning people into werewolves and mauling them. Since he may have thought she was dead then maybe he was thinking what's the point. Anyways, thanks for reading and yeah as you can see I like to stand up for characters I feel attached to. It's been a long day xD.User:MinxelfinforeverI Love Boulderon|User talk:Minxelfinforever 22:39, October 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * First off, we don't know how Lavender fell from that balcony, therefore we do not know how she landed. On the worst possible scenario, she could have fallen 15 feet and landed on her head onto the Entrance Hall flagstone floor. I trust that after a fall like that one wouldn't be left very well (although not necessarily dead, a la Judge Turpin in Sweeney Todd).
 * Please do read one of my posts above; the words Rowling uses when describing that scene are, in fact, unclear as to Greyback actually got to "sink his teeth" into her.
 * I was left stumped on how would that veterinarian notice a pulse on Lavender's neck during that scene, seeing as her neck is obscured by both the camera angle, and the tie/collar of her shirt. Either way, we're talking of an actress here, did you really think that would have killed Jesse Cave during shooting so that her corpse could depict a dead Lavender? Proposterous.
 * Checking for life? Honestly. Do you really think a sadistical beast like Greyback would be checking for life before striking and eating human flesh in a battle scenario? In Greyback's own words, he would be glad to do Dumbledore "for afters" after Draco had killed him atop the Astronomy Tower. And if he wasn't checking for life (obviously), nor mauling her, the only thing left he could've been doing was giving her a big hug. -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 23:12, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Now, I find your response very rude. I spent all day trying to get information and it feels like I have been slapped in the face. Seriously! Rowling's choice of words "TO sink it's teeth into one of the fallen. Anyways, whatever your policy. No one said I had to agree with it.--User:MinxelfinforeverI Love Boulderon|User talk:Minxelfinforever 01:40, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Also, if you look at the GIF I left above you see the side of her neck rise then fall.User:MinxelfinforeverI Love Boulderon|User talk:Minxelfinforever 01:41, November 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * I looked at said GIF and I couldn't really tell anything from it. Perhaps you can see a pulse, or perhaps it's just the lighting, which is flickering heavily in the scene. In any case, I think we're getting a bit off the track here. If you believe only the books (which would be the subject of the new wiki), then there is nothing conclusive saying that she died. If you follow the policies of this wiki, she is dead - I believe we were all agree on that. However, if you want to debate whether she's dead in the movie or not, then I suppose you could make an argument, but that's really beside the point - as talk pages are really only to discuss the content of articles- and that matter has already been settled. ProfessorTofty 02:04, November 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * She also may have had the body-binding curse casted on her. When Draco casted it on Harry he looked dead and it looked like he wasnt breathing

I know that my opinion will probably be disregarded as much as every other fanboy's above mine, but here goes: I want to see Lavender dead just as much as anyone, but the fact that the book specifically states that Lavender was "feebly stirring" after Greyback's attack is evidence enough, I think, to make her death ambiguous, especially considering that in the film, Lavender wasn't "stirring" at all, making at least that part of it non-canon. 00:28, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Agreed, it's hard stating what you think when someone acts as if they own the place.

I found this gif I believe it is after Lavender's attack http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luyvgljikF1qj7roko1_500.gif

User:MinxelfinforeverI Love Boulderon|User talk:Minxelfinforever 02:06, November 21, 2011 (UTC)

Yea, you said Greyback's death is ambigious just like Lavender's dont contradict yourself.


 * That GIF image of Padma is actually moments after Snape ditched his Headmaster duties and the duel between the professors and him. --KiumaruHamachi 14:20, November 26, 2011 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

Pictures
Hey. Um those pictures of the african american girl. Those are Angelina Johnson not Lavender Brown.Ravenclaw Eagles14!!!!! 03:13, December 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * No, Angelina looks a lot different. Those pictures are of Lavender, it's just that they originally had a black actress play her, but then they switched to a white one once it was made clear in the sixth book that the character was white. ProfessorTofty 03:44, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

Jessie Cave on Lavender Brown
'SnitchSeeker: Let's talk about Deathly Hallows''. In the book, it's sort of ambiguous what happens to Lavender. So what did you expect when you read the book? Did you think she'd died? Jessie:''' I didn't think she had died, but I was glad when I read the script because it's nice to have answers, and see something that had an impact. I was glad when we came to film it because it was fun to have blood. We don't know if she's dead or not; J.K. wasn't explicit.

-November 14, 2011

So I guess we have to wait for JKR to give her final word someday, either in an interview or Pottermore. Personally I think it could go either way.Greenpatronus 09:42, December 11, 2011 (UTC)greeny

My Verdict on Lavender
I see a lot of debate has been going on about whether Lavender dies or not. Personally, I could not care less about whether she dies or not but I must say what I DO care about is the films contradicting the books.

Yes, I agree that if nothing in the book contradict the films, then it is canonical but consider this: Lavender's predicament is contradicted. As pointed out plenty of times, the book has her thrown off and then saved before Greyback could touch her. The film shows no such fall, but instead Greyback feasting on her blood and she is shown dead attempting to make us all sad. The only reason why people insist Lavender is dead is because of some fan-made book confirming her death coupled with the pitiful fact that almost everyone hates her just because she dated Ron in Book 6. They WANT her dead so when the film gives it to them, they cheer. But the book still contradicts it. As far as I'm concerned, Lavender lives (unless Pomfrey and every other healer died so that they cannot fix a spinal cord problem.)

I won't impose her living on anyone but I will change. Look at Ernie Macmillan. We do not know if he lived or died but presume he lived because he was not mentioned as a casualty. The same should apply to Lavender. I will simply say: 'It is unknown whether she survives the fall and her fate after the war is unknown.' Please, let this settle the debate. It is not settled to one side or the other, but to the neutral middle. 212.28.240.99 19:16, December 30, 2011 (UTC)Arculus_Ambleway


 * I agree, we shouldn't take our personal preferences about a character affect how canonical information about her is treated (personally, I am a bit apathetic for Lavender as a character, myself). I totally see what you mean and it's perfectly logical, except for this: Rowling's choice of words in the book leaves it ambiguous whether Greyback did, in fact, get to bite Lavender. The book goes, and I quote: "a gray blur [Greyback] that Harry took for an animal sped four-legged across the hall to sink its teeth into one of the fallen [Lavender]". As I have already said above, the preposition "to", while it may have been used by Rowling simply to indicate Greyback's purpose (and if that is so, Greyback meant to bite her, but did not get to do that), may also be used to indicate result of action (and, if this is the case, Greyback did, indeed, bite Lavender). Per the canon policy, when the book is ambiguous we have to abide to the next higher canon tier: the films, which show Lavender being gnawned by Greyback. -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 19:45, December 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yet you forget; her fate isn't left ambiguous. While the film has her completely still, unmoving and dead- the book has her stirring and making signs that she is still alive. This is a huge contradiction. The only similarity between the book and the film is that Greyback and Lavender were near eachother. And I don't understand what you are saying about the word 'to'. Jo clearly means that the grey blur was going to bite, but didn't reach her. Why would she overcomplicate things, instead of saying that he actually sank his teeth into her, which isn't actually fatal- as shown by the survival of Bill 92.23.134.123 20:00, December 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * The books and all other JKR sources leave her fate ambiguous, there is no mention of her after she is left "feebly stirring" after Greyback is repelled.
 * The films explicitly identify that she died, according to cast interviews in the, as you put it, "fan-made book".


 * Where's the contradiction, precisely? -- 1337star (Owl Post) 20:31, December 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * And just to be clear, the "you" that referred to that as a "fan-made book" is another anon. That book is an officially licensed Harry Potter product and is generally regarded as a source of canon information for this site, unless a contradiction can, in fact, be found. ProfessorTofty 21:15, December 30, 2011 (UTC)