User talk:Seth Cooper

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On the subject of "free will"...
As you know, I am currently pretty fixated on Rakepick's page right now, but when I eventually get around to work on the others as well - I seem to remember someone said that all the choices the player can make in the game about who is chosen to accompany the MC on various quests/sidequests or otherwise involved in the story was all equally canon, so I was curious - if we add on each individual page the character in question's potential involvement in detail, and vaugely make reference to any other potentials involved without identifying them, for example?

Like - who would you borrow a broom from? On Merula's page, Merula was asked. On Ismelda's page, Ismedla was asked. Who did MC ask for advice on the jewel head? On Ben's page, Ben was asked. On Bill's page, Bill was asked. On Rakepick's page, Rakepick was asked, etc. Does this seem agreeable to you? Maester Martin (talk) 20:12, September 1, 2018 (UTC)

Okay, I am not looking to quarrel here, just so that's out there, but - why? How is that better? I mean - I get why that would be the case on the article of Jacob's sibling, who after all is the MC who gets these options, but how is Ben/Rakepick's own potential involvement relevant to Bill/Bill's article? Wouldn't that kind of be like reducing a character article to a partial game manual/walkthrough? Sorry, don't mean to be difficult, but how is foisting a bunch of game-related variables better than sticking to the individual characters and their experiences on the articles of the relevant characters, and then simply make a reference in that poriton of their biography nothing how their involvement in that quest was "player-determined"? Again, not looking to argue or anything, but I'm afraid I don't follow your logic on this.

On a related and more interesting matter,  since I originally asked this, I rewatched the clip, and curiously enough, if you picked Rakepick, the MC will comment later when she talked to Penny that Rakepick suggested looking inside the castle, and Ben suggested outside the castle, as if they had talked to both of them. To me, it might sound like - in that quest, at least, you pick your first choice to go to for advice and get to experience talking to them, and then afterwards, the two others are asked "off camera". Thoughts? Maester Martin (talk) 21:18, September 2, 2018 (UTC)

Okay - I feel like there might have been some failure in communication here. When I suggested that "Who did MC ask for advice on the jewel head? On Ben's page, Ben was asked. On Bill's page, Bill was asked. On Rakepick's page, Rakepick was asked, etc.", that would, of course, be granted there was some sort of reference explaining it was one of several optional scenarioes in the game on each article. For a moment there, I mistook your reply to mean that we would write in the article, something along the lines of: "Madam Rakepick recieved an owl from Jacob's sibling, (if chosen by the player, the two other options being Bill Weasley and Ben Copper)," which  sounded odd but was what I thought you meant. Sorry, that was a bit short-sighted of me. I thoght the hypotetical reference denoting it as "a canonical scenario in the story, as opposed to being the canonical scenario " was implied, but - re-reading my own question, I see that I could have explained myself better.

So, to clarify, my idea was that on the subject of who the MC asked for advice on the jewel head - that on Ben's page, Ben was asked. On Bill's page, Bill was asked. On Rakepick's page, Rakepick was asked, etc., with a reference/note explaining it was one of three optional scenarios, and maybe a link to the pages of the other two choices. Maester Martin (talk) 00:27, September 3, 2018 (UTC)

My recent uploads
Oops... Will do. ^^' Maester Martin (talk) 21:19, September 2, 2018 (UTC)

On second thought, I might need an example/demonstration of how this thing works. How/where do you add this template? Maester Martin (talk) 21:22, September 2, 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. :-) Maester Martin (talk) 00:27, September 3, 2018 (UTC)

Sorry if I seem like a complete idiot, but - how do I fill out this thing? Do I use the "[//harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Upload https://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Upload]", does the code/template has to be added somewhere in the codes in source mode in the articles the images appear in, do you mean I add these pictures with templates in "Images of Patricia Rakepick" gallery before they are used in the article itself?...? Maester Martin (talk) 00:35, September 3, 2018 (UTC)

Boss? Maester Martin (talk) 13:04, September 7, 2018 (UTC)

I think I got it, but thanks, I'll give you a head's up if I have any questions. :-) Maester Martin (talk) 19:34, September 12, 2018 (UTC)

Blog post responses
Hi there Seth! Sorry for the belated reply, but thank you for taking the time reading and taking care of some of the question in the post!

For the colony question, I feel incredibly stupid lol. I never realize there's actually two different meanings for the word "colony," I mean, I'm vaguely aware of it, I suppose, but because I always associate one with the other, I kinda just group them to be the same. I take that HPW's colony usage is #2, when I just assumed it was #1; just feel like explaining as it turns out to be my vocabulary issue that mistook the exact subject of those pages. Thank you for taking the time and explaining it so straightforwardly! =D
 * 1) a country or area under the full or partial political control of another country, typically a distant one, and occupied by settlers from that country.
 * 2) a group of people of one nationality or ethnic group living in a foreign city or country.

Also want to ask if it's okay for me to copy some of your responses and paste to the respective talk pages where I first raised those issues, because I feel like chances for them to be seen are way higher than people stumbling upon my post, and I think letting people know the matters were resolved would be a nice gesture.

I know you are busy, so viewing the updates on User blog:Sammm鯊/Questions anticipating answers (Admins, really need your pointers!) may be a bit much (more to come, not used to a different laptop so it's slowing me down Orz,) so I'll ask the one I think after getting a respond, I can take actions without the help of Admins: Category talk:Candidates for deletion; no "delete to make way for rename" of the sort is needed, I just need to get the confirmation if there's other more preferable article titles other than one of the options proposed by another Admin; if not, I can go merge 14 pages down to 7. I think the situation is a little long overdue.

Hope all is well! -- S a m m m ✦✧ (talk) 16:17, September 13, 2018 (UTC)

Twitter template needs updating
Hey hey :)

Just popping my head in to let you know that your main page needs to be updated for it to work. You'll need to change: <twitter widget-id="xxxxxxxxxx". . . into <twitter screen-name="name of twitter account". ..

I would have changed it for you, but I didn't immediately find a way to look up an screen name from the widget-id number. So I wasn't sure which account was being called. -- CzechOut 18:33, September 17, 2018 (UTC)

Hello, again.
I made some inquiries on the talkpages of Dolores Umbridge and Chief Attendant of Witchcraft Provisions. I also replied on the talk page of the Imperius Curse. Maester Martin (talk) 23:10, September 18, 2018 (UTC)

Hello a second time...
I'm kind of feeling kind of bad that I tend to be sort of - you know, expressive about my opinions, especially if they conflict with the admin staff and makes your job harder than it needs to be, so for once, I'd like to propose a more friendly discussion? I take it you are familiar with the fan film Severus Snape and the Marauders ? If no, I'd highly reccomend it. If yes - they have actually continued the story in the form of a radio drama under the title "The Great Wizarding War", and they're really, really good. If you got the time one day, I figured you might be interested in checking out chapter one and two, and then maybe we could open a discussion thread and throw in our two cents on it or something? Maester Martin (talk) 02:52, September 21, 2018 (UTC)

Discussions data
Hey Seth, The Dark Marc was interested in seeing data for Harry Potter Discussions and what activity levels there are like. I thought you might be interested in that. If so, you can find it on User talk:The Dark Marc. - Brandon Rhea (talk) 03:18, September 21, 2018 (UTC)

Deleting image
Could you delete most of the recent images from User:Flowertje except one? They're all the exact same image and it is not necessary to have that many images of the same image. IlvermornyWizard (talk) 03:40, September 21, 2018 (UTC) IlvermornyWizard

Nagini image
Probably could use your feedback on this discussion. Cheers --Ironyak1 (talk) 18:54, September 25, 2018 (UTC)


 * Agreed on all points - the tabber should be a workable compromise between the various interests. Hope school is treating you well! --Ironyak1 (talk) 18:23, September 26, 2018 (UTC)


 * I've been helping friends and neighbors deal with some stuff over the last few months, but glad things have settled down and I can take a break from reality just in time for 🇨🇬. Go get some rest (and then cram some more ;) Cheers --Ironyak1 (talk) 21:35, September 26, 2018 (UTC)

COS official videos... with Japanese subtitles...
Yeah, no idea how to describe them, because the editing quality (not necessarily the video quality for the first one) of them is definitely official, and they look to be special treats for Japanese audience? But yeah... Any idea if there're versions released for the English audience? I mean, they all talk in English, but I think the Japanese subtitle might distract some people if uploading them onto this wiki. It's not a must, but I feel like those interviews are quite nice to share =D (I'm not very up to date when it comes to BTS and interview videos, so there's a very high chance that those are very very old news and I'm just late in discovering them) -- S a m m m ✦✧ (talk) 16:59, September 26, 2018 (UTC)
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0nS0xW6vnQ
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoJ9n9c1gfE


 * Thank you so much! I'm a little pissed at myself because I actually searched for the video on that YT account, and for some reason was just completely repealed to even try clicking on the said video (yeah, it wasn't that I didn't see it, it was that I actively decided to avoid it... I'ma blame this to a poor judgement made when lack of sleep.)


 * Thanks for the timely response! Also, wanted to check, are those kinds of videos allowed (or encouraged) to share on this wiki? I'm asking because I'm not seeing them here, so I don't know if I'm missing some unspoken rules about videos. -- S a m m m ✦✧ (talk) 17:39, September 26, 2018 (UTC)

Ethan going inactive, New MOD chosen
Greetings Seth,

TheBoyWhoDied on Harry Potter. http://harrypotter.wikia.com/d/u/36075671 has informed the MOD group that he wishes to be demoted, and while actually demotion is likely not needed, his reduced activity has left a hole in the group.

After some discussion, the remaining active MODs has agreed that TheDaughterofHermesRavenclawTributefromTatooine on Harry Potter. http://harrypotter.wikia.com/d/u/31656944 is the best candidate to fill that hole. Could you please promote her at your earliest convenience?

Many thanks The Dark Marc (talk)

Thanks again 👍

Plural as titles
Hi Seth! Are you still online? If so, is it possible to pop in chat? If not, that's fine, too. I have some questions for sometimes; why are the following articles titled the way they are? I just thought it was really weird, cuz even though they are regularly used in plural, the same can be said for tones of others and they don't have plural as their article titles. It makes describing them in singular form with unnecessary steps, an issue that won't occur if named in singular.
 * Creatures
 * Chocolate Frog Cards

Also asking because I think a "real world" page for Chocolate Frog Card is overdue; if and  which we barely know in-universe and are basing most on OOU counterparts, the cards that are produced IRL should at least collectively get an entry. There are some variations with the designs. It'd also unload some of the burden of the in-universe Chocolate Frog Card page. -- S a m m m ✦✧ (talk) 02:04, September 30, 2018 (UTC)


 * Will you be able to swap the plural and singular titles? Both have singular used as redirects, I don't think regular users can swap them.


 * As for the RL Chocolate Frog Cards, I have indeed read Famous Witches and Wizards Cards beforehand, but judging from the content, I don't think that is it. I'm talking about the cards that accompanies the RL Chocolate Frogs sold; I don't have a lot, but I did get two versions, ones using real people as characters, another using illustrations. Both kinds are those 3D ones that would move. If that makes any sense. I think the products I got were:
 * https://www.jellybelly.com/harry-potter-chocolate-frog-0-55-oz/p/96267
 * https://www.amazon.com/Potter-Chocolate-Collectible-Wizard-Trading/dp/B00AMTUIOW
 * The blue one is the updated version using real people. Then there's:
 * https://shop.universalorlando.com/p/Chocolate-Frogs-4-Pack.html
 * That have been featured within the Chocolate Frog Cards article. Same goes with:
 * https://www.hp-lexicon.org/author/wizards-of-the-coast/
 * This one I don't know if it came with the actual Chocolate Frog or just purely made as cards. Again, they are RL products mixed within the in-universe page. I know the same could be argued for Bertie Bott's Every Flavour Beans, but I think that page isn't having the same issue Chocolate Frog Cards page has... the latter really is too long when the RL ones could be seen as a RL counterpart article.
 * -- S a m m m ✦✧ (talk) 21:12, October 1, 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks for solving the plural/singular issue! =D


 * For the RL page, would the title be "Chocolate Frog Card (real)" or "Chocolate Frog Card (real-world)"? I think both are equally correct, but I'd rather get the preferred one in one go. The RL counterparts of and  used "(real)", but there're pages like Mauricio Carneiro (real-world) and Emma Vane (real-world), that's why I'm asking. I've filtered out the RL card info on my user pages, so once the article is created, content can be quickly relocated.


 * BTW, I know you are sort of in the middle of something, but will you be able to pop into chat? -- S a m m m ✦✧ (talk) 21:58, October 1, 2018 (UTC)

Proposal
Hey Seth, it's Harrypotterexpert101, and I need to talk to you about something. I'm not trying to say it's your fault, but this wikis leadership teams needs to be dealt with. The Moderation team consists of 9 Moderators, correct? Well, only 2 of them are actually active in the discussions. One of the Mods hasn't been on the discussions board in over a year! Ok, here's the crazy part. Out of the 20 administrators on this wiki, only a few have been active in the last couple years! So Seth, I'm proposing something to you. The Mod team have been wanting an administrator for the discussion board so they can deal with everything easier. I am offering to take an administrator job to help with the discussions to make the Mods life easier. Seth, please consider my offer. I am a very experienced user in discussions and know when to hand out blocks and band when needed. Plus, none of the other administrators have real experience with the discussions on this wiki. Another up is that the Mod team wouldn't need to bug you  when they needed somebody promoted, I would be able to take care of that. Seth, seriously, if you give me this chance, you will not regret it. I have administrative experience on the Phoenix Files wiki, and can be active almost daily. Thanks for reading this, and I wish you luck in everything you do!

Harrypotterexpert101 03:43, October 1, 2018 (UTC)

Re:Warning.
Fine... I will stop disagreeing with you. Maester Martin (talk) 20:59, October 1, 2018 (UTC)

The issue isn't that I don't have tangible, concrete proof of something, Seth, it is that we invariably always fail to agree upon what is reasonably defined as tangible, concrete proof of something. Oh, btw, the new image on the Grindelwald's army page is kind of misleading. Seem to remember somewhere the image depict Grindelwald talking to people who have come to hear him out and whom he is trying to convince to join him. 21:07, October 1, 2018 (UTC)Maester Martin (talk)

Let me try again, I must have phrased myself poorly: The sentence "Professor Horace Slughorn is pure-blood" is not the only way in which J. K. Rowling can possibly establish that Professor Horace Slughorn is pure-blood. Maester Martin (talk) 21:46, October 1, 2018 (UTC)

If JKR released a new short-story set in Albus learns from Grindelwald that when he was a student at Durmstrang, it was under the stewardship of a Professor Vlademir Histoff, would you have to see the word 'Headmaster' to know Professor Histoff was the Headmaster of Durmstrang? 21:57, October 1, 2018 (UTC)Maester Martin (talk)

Why? Grindelwald just told us he was running the school, isn't that what the headmaster does? Maester Martin (talk) 22:10, October 1, 2018 (UTC)

Discussion Areas Update
Hi Seth,

The current MODs are looking at restructuring and/or renaming the Discussions areas and we'd like to involve and/or hear from the Admin group as to whether or what changes you believe might best prepare us for the member influx resulting from the upcoming movie.

Currently we're discussing:

adding 'and New Members' to the General or Questions tab.

Changing the now defunked 'FANDOM' area into 'Random FANDOM' to accomadate non offensive HP related threads that don't currently meet the Discussion Guidelines (Memes, jokes, What's your Favourite Questions)

Any input would be appreciated 😁

Chat soon

The Dark Marc (talk)

01:05, October 3, 2018 (UTC)

Administrator
Hey Seth, it's Harrypotterexpert101 again, and I had submitted my admin application, as you suggested. Ironyak said I needed an administrator to weigh in on the cause, but your technically an admin, correct? You have me permission to post on the Requests for Permissions, did you not? Can you please help me out? I mean, your a bureaucrat, so you technically have more powers than administrators. Ironyak told me to talk to you about it...

Harrypotterexpert101 01:01, October 5, 2018 (UTC)

Diagon Alley north side image
Hello, trying to connect with Seth Cooper. I am new to this but wonder if you know who has the rights to the Diagon Alley north side image -

https://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Diagon_Alley?file=Diagon_Alley_North_Side.png?

I would really like to find the person to talk about getting rights to use it.

Ddavid1044 (talk) 16:43, October 12, 2018 (UTC)ddavid1044


 * Hi Seth,
 * I was so free to answer him. I hope it's okay.  Harry granger   Talk    contribs  21:40, October 12, 2018 (UTC)

Full revert and other thing
Okay, so I was just kind of wondering why you reverted my edit on the Department of Magical Education?

Also, I mentioned this on Ironyak1's talk page, but I think it has gone unnoticed: In HM, Y4 Ch11, Professor Kettleburn said the following when talking about faries, which makes it sound like the founding of Fantastic Beasts: Cases from the Wizarding World occurs around the same time. What do you think? Maester Martin (talk) 13:16, October 10, 2018 (UTC)

Again, you have a peculiar way of defining "speculation". So what exactly was it that was so disagreeable?

Also - no, not by name, but there are only one organisation in canon dedicated to preserve the habitats of faries, and toppled with the fact that Jam City have basically copy-pasted quite a bit of their content from this wiki and to some degree, from Pottermore, it would be ludicrous to think they talk of anything other than WHIFF. Maester Martin (talk) 23:39, October 12, 2018 (UTC)

I know I've pointed this out in the past, Seth, but Rowling created her fictional wizarding world to mirror the real world, meaning that unless it is important to the story or a concept of her own making, (ex. dementor/obscurial), nothing is added without it being both intentional and plain to see for one and all what we are looking at. The idea "we don't know" what the department does, is nonsense. We know that it is a governmental department of education, and all I did, in the strictest sense, was to point that out in the article. The idea that a supposedly "might do" something completely different than what we know for a fact is the purpose of a governmental department of education to be, for no other reason that it has the word "magic" in it, is, with all due respect, a bit naive, from a literary perspective in regard to Rowling's universe and how it is structured. That being said, I can of course appreciate your presistence in keeping actual fanon out of the articles, but I would say I have good reasons to say my edit don't fit that label.

Also - oh, my bad, I misread you, then. ^^' So - it sounded pretty definitive to me. If you disagree, my next question i what you would qualifies as a definitive proof of the joint timeline? Maester Martin (talk) 00:26, October 13, 2018 (UTC)

No, it didn't say exactly how long WHIFF had existed, but here's the thing: In Cases, the organisation had only two members and was so unknown that not even members of the Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures, who works with magical creatures for a living and in this regard have considerable resources within the field, had even heard of it. In HM, while we don't know how many members it has, they had grown so influential that the group could actually affect Hogwarts affairs. If nothing else, it proves Cases predates ''HM. Maester Martin (talk) 08:18, October 14, 2018 (UTC)''

If it had, it'd been established in canon. It'd be "we are the only members left", not "I think Winfred and I are the only members". Again, coincidence and deceit don't happen in fiction, not even on other mediums than books. That aside though, why do you imagine an organisation infuential enough to affect the cirriculum at Hogwarts would, or even could, decline to that stage? From a purely hypotetical, in-universe point of view, that is? Maester Martin (talk) 18:04, October 14, 2018 (UTC)

How so? Maester Martin (talk) 23:00, October 14, 2018 (UTC)

First off - what are you even talking about? I haven't made an appeal to ignorance, I have presented you two pieces of canon with clear implications, and you reject them on the basis of your ability to come up with fan theories. So - please - just - stop trying to force fallacies down my throat. I'm sorry Seth, but you are using them wrong. That isn't how fiction works, and I have a third cousin once removed with a master's degree in the history of literature who agrees with me. (And before you start with the 'appeal to authority' thing), I don't base my position on him because he has a master's degree in the history of literature, I landed on the position because the master's degree in the history of literature means that there is a reasonable expectation involved that he should have a fairly good idea about what he is talking about, I mean - he have worked part-time as translator for fantasy books to Norwegian as well.

But alas, if you have already decided to stick by your position Seth, I guess there is nothing to be done but for us to, once again, agree to disagree. Maester Martin (talk) 23:24, October 14, 2018 (UTC)

Also, I have to ask though: Hypotetically speaking, if I tweeted JKR and asked which one she agreed with, and she agreed with me, would that have changed your position at all, or would that be just an appeal to authority? Maester Martin (talk) 23:31, October 14, 2018 (UTC)

Let me try this again... I have presented you two pieces of canon with crystal clear implications, from two different canonical sources. And your reply is; always, regardless of what canonical sources or information is brought on the table, "I reject that - for all we know - fan theory - ignorance fallacy", and leaving me a confused wreck and feeling like a complete retard. Maester Martin (talk) 00:09, October 15, 2018 (UTC)

Making fan theories based on no canon information because you subjectively interpet certain pieces of canon to be vauge, doesn't mean that there is more than one possible explonation, canonically speaking. But, alas, as I said above, it would appear that there is nothing to be done but for us to, once again, agree to disagree.Maester Martin (talk) 01:13, October 15, 2018 (UTC)

And I find it kind of unamusing that you treat your made-up-on-the-spot scenarios and the direction that canonical evidence acually point towards as one and the same. I try to explain how fiction works, you keep treating fiction like non-fiction and asserting that that's not what you're doing, I disagree with you, and I'm accused of making a fallacy. And on and on we go in circles. Nothing personal, Seth, but sometimes, trying to discuss the concept of canon with you give me flash backs to conversations I've had with Christian apologists. Maester Martin (talk) 01:46, October 15, 2018 (UTC)

If that'd be what I am doing, you would be quite right. However, as a matter of fact, I am adding two and two and getting four, just like I was when we discussed the subject of aura, where I presented contextual evidence for the usage I had orignially added to the page which people kept removing because it was "speculation", even after I went out of the way to explain step by step why that wasn't the case. And what happened? Oh, yes, now I remember, what I had said all along was demonstrated to be true. And this is in no shape or form any different. So when I say "the direction that canonical evidence acually point towards", I mean, quite literally, the direction that canonical evidence acually point towards. See - here's the thing, Seth: Your assessment of my "argument", (which is to be hoenest more akin to me pointing something out, really), and your subsequent conclusion that I'm somehow logically incoherent, are both rooted in the presupposition that the way logic is applied to reality is, or even can be, applied to fiction, which is simply not the case. You will not, and you cannot, reach accuracy that way. The fact that the concept of fiction exist within reality don't mean that the content of said literature does. So at the end of the day, the fact that you don't "happen to agree" the evidence goes is, well, irrelevant. Of course, it is in no way irrelevant for whether that information is actually added to the wiki, since you're in charge of it and all and are in a position to make that call, but that doesn't necessarily mean you are correct about this. And I know you are incorrect about, because you are, as I have said several times before, ascribing variables to a fictional universe that only can exist in reality.

I have almost lost count of how many people I have presented our disagreement to, and I'm not even tried to claim what I am saying to be factual. I tell them that "I say", and then "you say", and then "I say", and then "my reply is", and rounds it off with; "Who'd you say is right or wrong?". And whenever I lay before them my argument of facts not being facts in fiction, but rather whatever the author and/or related sources establishes to be the true for his or her fictional universe, which necessarily leaves no room for anythig to exist within that fictional universe beyond that which is established canon. For context, I either showed them or told them about discussions we have had, and once I tell them about your own counter-argument and how you are saying my logic is fallacious and that I am making appeals to ignorance, and rounded off by asking who they thought to be right or wrong, each and every single one of them have said, in a nutshell, that in order for the ignorance fallacy to apply, it recquires the actual presence of something to be ignorant about. And that is, in the simplest possible terms, why the concept of "contextual interpetation" you accused me of being guilty of in regard to auras, isn't really something anyone can actually do when we are talking about something rooted in made-up concepts, because in the case of a fictional universe, we can investigate what exists within it with a 100% accuracy what exists by simply consulting the canonical information given to us by valid sources. You have canon, and then you have non-canon, there is nothing in between. And that, Seth, is what I mean about following canonical evidence the direction it leads, be it contextual or otherwise. However, Seth, you keep telling me that this is "bad logic", and yet - you are the only one I have ever talked to on the subject who hold the position you do. Ever. And as I told you above, that includes someone with a master's degree in literary history. But alas, I am left with the sense that we will never be in agreement about this regardless.

I am almost certain we will not get anywhere by this discussion, because I'm saying one thing, you are saying another, and at the end of the day, what is or isn't added to the wiki is up to you. Maester Martin (talk) 06:39, October 16, 2018 (UTC)

Okay, so - I don't usually do this anymore, because I've been told that it makes me come off as if I'm talking down to people, and if you get that impression, I'd like to apologize in advance, but let me just reply to you point by point real quick so I'm sure I don't miss anything...

'''Indeed, what you said was far from demonstrated to be true (i.e. Dumbledore was a master aurologist) and it has been expurged from the article, and it remains so. '''

There are more than enough contextual evidence to make a case for why you were wrong, but that's ancient history. I am fully aware and acknowledge that you disagree that what Dumbledore did was aurology, that you will not have it in the article, and I'm at peace with it. What I meant was - the last time I had proper contextual evidence to back up a claim, you rejected it. It lead me to one conclusion, and one conclusion only; that the word aura, can be used as a contextual synonym for the traces left behind by magic. Which it can, and Rowling herself reaffirmed.

'''Logical analysis is applied to an argument. An argument is either valid or invalid, in that its reasoning is well or poorly constructed. The fact that we are arguing about fiction is irrelevant: bad reasoning is bad regardless of what it is about. It is poor reasoning to assume something to be true just because that something hasn't been disproven, regardless of what one is talking about. '''

While logical analysis applies to an argument, what the argument is about is absolutely relevant, because it tells us something about how it applies based on the subject matter of the argument. You keep telling me that "logic always apply", but I have never said it don't. I have only ever said that it apply differently to fiction as opposed to non-fiction, because one is rooted in actual existence, with "variables" meaning that we are restricted by whatever limit to our knowledge we can have on any given subject of reality, because of our obvious lack of omnicience. In regard to fiction, however, things are a little different. In fiction, there isn't any "variables". There are no "for all we knows", "maybes" or "perhapses". There isn't anything we "don't know", because everything there is to know is "on page" for us to look up. And before you start asking me if I know what will happen in the last Fantastic Beasts movie or something along those lines to "prove me wrong" - I don't know. But that knowledge, has Rowling even come up with it yet, have yet to become established canon, and won't become established canon until she make it so.

Canon exist "on page", not in Rowling's head, that's only where it originated from. And luckily for us, she just so happens to be in a position to add to the fictional universe in question for that very same reason, and she is not done bulding on it yet. (Hopefully, she won't be quite done even after the Fantastic Beasts series - one can hope, right?). In short - what you are describing here, Seth, is what we call a fallacist's fallacy, where a conclusion is made that the truth value of an argument is false based on the fact that the argument contains a fallacy. I disagree that I've made a fallacy in the first place, but for even if I were to concur that I have, so would you have if I had been making a fallacious argument, which would recquire me to have an absolute lack of evidence, which I don't have, it would've been - I don't know, the Modal fallacy, for example, or - False dilemma, but not an appeal to ignorance.

That being said, I have on quite a few occassions already told you that in light of the doubts I have that we will come to an actual agreement on the subject, nothing is stopping us from just ending it here before either one of us manages to piss the other off. (Note; I'm not even remotely aggrivated by this, and fully willing to just put this issue to rest at your behest whenever you ask me to.)

'''I'm saying this for the last time, as it's become rather tedious by now to repeat this over and over again: our purpose here is to record cold, hard, canonical fact. Anything that isn't established in canon in some way or another, is not to be added to the Wiki. If it's not on the paper, if it's not referenceable it's not established.'''

That's quite literally exactly what I have been telling you all this time while debukning your "for all we know - fan theory" arguments... Maester Martin (talk) 23:42, October 17, 2018 (UTC)

You regard them conjectural, I consider them to be contextual. Who is right or not is one issue, whether it will be added to the wiki is quite another. And if you think back, even if I were to concur that I might be guilty of having been a bit hasty in adding such contextually supported scenarioes of the type you don't agree to be canon, and even a bit insistent on it, once we "sit down and talk about it", for a lack of a better term, I have never once added anything after we both have presented our cases and you have made it clear why you don't want me to.

Again, the wizarding world of Harry Potter is on page, not in Rowling's head. Either something is established canon, or it isn't, there is nothing we "don't know" until yet a new element is presented to us. You can agree, or you can disagree, but we have what is "on page" and nothing more, and your "for all we know" scenarioes treats fiction like non-fiction by making it out to sound like this isn't the case. However - I'm done with this discussion when you are Seth, I have no interest in wasting your time with this if you have anything better to do. ^^'

Oh, as for your PS:


 * You have several time said "You're making an appeal to ignorance, you're using faulty reasoning", and used that as justification for saying I am wrong. I disagree that I've been appealing to ignorance - I've talked with too many Christian apologists not to know the general shape and sound of that fallacy by now - but even if that was what I had been doing, the fallaciousness of my argument wouldn't necessarily meant my conclusion was wrong.


 * Oh, I see - sorry, I should've been clearer in what I meant: Unless I have somehow confused the names of two fallacies, the modal fallacy is the thing were you're confusing possibility with necessity, which I meant to say were a fallacy I could have been arguably said to have made back when we discussed whether Dumbledore is an aurologist or not - not this siuation, that wouldn't make sense. :P Sorry for the confusion. ^^' Maester Martin (talk) 08:19, October 18, 2018 (UTC)

FIne then, we'll just say you won the discussion, shall we?. :P Maester Martin (talk) 15:19, October 18, 2018 (UTC)

When a "Hogwarts" specific article is needed
Hi there, Seth!

I guess I'd just like to have a clearer guideline as to when a "Hogwarts" specific article is needed; because I find myself having contradicting thoughts on the matter. For example, as mentioned in Talk: Hogwarts Quidditch Captain, I think this page was once simply "Quidditch Captain" and for some reason got a name change, which none of the other actual Quidditch positions got. In this case, I don't particularly think there's a need to have a separate article just specifically for Quidditch Captains from Hogwarts, just as I don't think Beaters, Seekers etc. need to have a Hogwarts specific article, but that's just me.

That being said, due to the shear amount of info on both Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry and Headmaster, several times I almost feel that "Hogwarts Headmaster" (Headmaster of Hogwarts School of ~) could get its own article, but I don't know if this would just be hypocritical and double-standard, when I feel differently for the Hogwarts Quidditch Captain's case.

I guess what brought this on is the discovery of the Hogwarts house-elves article; I feel it made sense, but I think on some level I don't really understand why the same logic couldn't be applied to Hogwarts Headmaster. IDK, I feel like I'm missing something crucial. -- S a m m m ✦✧ (talk) 21:28, October 14, 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the clarification! I guess my problem was mainly to determine whether something hasn't been made as an article because "no one took the time to go through with it and make it" or "it was deemed not needed and can be included elsewhere," if that makes any sense. I'll work on trusting my judgement a little more lol. I've reformatted a redirect specifically for the Hogwarts Headmaster to its own page.


 * On a different note, when you have time, can you take a look at Talk: Telephone booth? I want to say I'm now guessing there isn't a separate "British Ministry of Magic visitor's entrance" page because "no one took the time to go through with it and make it"? (Even though someone did but was turned to a redirect?) Urghhhh or is it the kind that doesn't have enough info so could just be included in a general article...? (sorry, just when I feel like I got it, I still have doubts.) -- S a m m m ✦✧ (talk) 23:13, October 14, 2018 (UTC)

Re: Long overdue
Hi there Seth! Decided to finish placing a navbox to all applicable articles, so only just checked your message. I feel so honored!!

BTW, was checking RecentChanges, and found out about Harry Potter Wiki:Awards‎‎; I think there might be a few users missing on the list, not sure if there's a lot or just one, but I noticed User:Kates39 wasn't on it.

Slightly different topic but more like back to the previous conversation; I will definitely work on "being bold" lol. IDK why I always subconsciously come up with the scenario where'd I be scrutinized and judged, which isn't actually a bad thing but I think it caused unnecessary pressure. xP

I tried to be less fearful and worked on consolidating Unidentified Hogwarts employees, in which surprisingly, after consolidation, actually doesn't have clashing conjectural titles for different individuals. I did notice something and brought it up on Talk: Unidentified Hogwarts employees; in short, I'm interested to know how it was determined that all 1992 Quidditch spectators were Hogwarts employees, as Lucius Malfoy was also present during the same match (I don't think he was a Hogwarts employee, unless he could be counted as one?)

Another issue is at Talk:Flying (class), though User:Rodolphus has brought up a similar point in sections above back in 2010. I think I actually had this question before HM was released, because I couldn't find where the statement about "flying class is for first year only" was from. I've added when I see that statement, but I also kind of think, if it turns out to be false, it's probably best to take it down ASAP to not misinform people further.

Sorry for bombarding you with a long post again. xD

Hope all is well! -- S a m m m ✦✧ (talk) 23:17, October 16, 2018 (UTC)


 * Are you able to drop in chat real quick?-- S a m m m ✦✧ (talk) 23:00, October 18, 2018 (UTC)


 * Oh Seth! What time zone are you in? (if it's too revealing, you don't have to answer.) It's almost 4am here and I literally have no idea why I was still up (lost track of time, am heading to bed to catch at least a little sleep.) The chat was about something else, but if you have time, perhaps you can review the above, or Talk:Main Page, Harry Potter Wiki talk:Harry Potter Wiki Projects, and User talk:Ironyak1/Archive 3? The last one is because I think the more people brainstorming together, the better? But yeah, I don't think any of them are time sensitive, so take your time! =D -- S a m m m ✦✧ (talk) 10:59, October 20, 2018 (UTC)

Multiple Accounts
We banned User:QuestionOfTheDayOfficial for sockpuppeting, and just in time User:Reverb frost disputes our ban stating that multiple accounts are allowed, as long as they aren't used for disruptive behaviour.
 * 1. Could having multiple accounts be permanently banned from this wiki, it is only used by people seeking to create disruptive behaviour and/or troll (except for bots, those are understandable)
 * 2. The blocked user did disrupt the community in a sense that he was posting threads breaking rules set by the mod team.

In case of Fandom cracking down, I'd like to know whether you're to defend our actions or not, and if you'll put this rule in place.

On a completely other note, I'd like to request being made an admin, or at least a vote to make me an admin. Why? The discussions need one. First of all there's all the trivial matters, changing category names, (I believe admins can) hiding posts, etc. But also more complex matters, such as user involvement. Users will feel more engaged and listened to if it's an admin their talking to. There's the yellow star in the corner of their pfp (at least in the community apps) e.g. As us mods have stated before, in total there are like 9 discussion posts shared between admins, 9! You've basically left us to take care of the kindergardeners, something User:The_Dark_Marc has put forward on and on, and I agree with him, we take care of all the nine year olds, while the grown ups edit, ignoring completely the discussions. We wish to change that, we want to create a space where (at least mostly) editors talk and use. I think that for that to happen, people need to feel more engaged with the heads of the community, not some janitor that was assigned to forever clean up the waste that is the discussions. I sincerely hope you and your co-admins consider this option. Cheers,   CosmicChronos       Talk to me       Contribs    14:49, October 19, 2018 (UTC)

Hey there, I suppose I am being taken a bit out of context there or maybe the moderator misunderstood my words. If it wasn't clear perhaps I would like to make it clear now by saying that having more than one accounts is not wrong or a reason for ban. But as the rules on this wiki state that when one account is being banned, all other accounts of that user are supposed to be banned because those accounts are considered one and the same user. And offcourse there are sockpuppet accounts which are against the rules.

Reverb frost (talk)


 * Yes, it seems as if I misunderstood your words, soz.
 * Cheers,   CosmicChronos       Talk to me       Contribs    22:01, October 19, 2018 (UTC)

Appearances chronology
So in reviewing the Harry Potter Wiki:Layout guide, I was reminded that the Appearances section should be from the in-universe chronology. As such, FB and COG should come before HM then PS, COS, etc... While the bot can made to handle this custom sorting, I wanted to double-check we wish to enforce this ordering (which is loosely followed currently) before doing the coding necessary, or if we should change the layout guide. Thanks --Ironyak1 (talk) 18:17, October 20, 2018 (UTC)


 * Using the real world chronology is much easier as it is far simpler to reconcile publication / creation dates than trying to figure out the in-universe time frame for many sources (as you noted). If we update the Appearances list of the layout guide with the preferred order of sources, this can be used as the custom sort order the bot needs. I'll take a first stab at updating it and you can check and refine hopefully. Cheers --Ironyak1 (talk) 03:42, October 21, 2018 (UTC)

Here is the list so far with my notes about dates left on. I know there are several other minor sources that need to be added, and will do so tomorrow as time allows.
 * Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone
 * Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (film)
 * Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (video game)
 * Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
 * Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (film)
 * Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (video game)
 * Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
 * Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban (film)
 * Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban (video game)
 * Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire
 * Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (film)
 * Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (video game)
 * Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
 * Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (film)
 * Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (video game)
 * Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince
 * Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince (film)
 * Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince (video game)
 * Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows
 * Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part 1
 * Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part 1 (video game)
 * Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part 2
 * Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part 2 (video game)
 * Quidditch Through the Ages (edition notes as needed)
 * Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them (edition notes as needed)
 * The Tales of Beedle the Bard
 * Harry Potter LEGO Sets (2001)
 * LEGO Creator: Harry Potter
 * LEGO Creator: Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
 * LEGO Harry Potter: Years 1-4
 * LEGO Harry Potter: Years 5-7
 * ''LEGO Dimensions
 * Harry Potter: Quidditch World Cup (2003)
 * Harry Potter: Find Scabbers (2005)
 * The Queen's Handbag (2006)
 * Harry Potter: A Pop-Up Book (2010)
 * The Wizarding World of Harry Potter (2010)
 * Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey
 * Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Motorbike Escape (2010)
 * Harry Potter Page to Screen: The Complete Filmmaking Journey (2011)
 * Pottermore (Jun 2012)
 * Wonderbook: Book of Spells (Nov 2012)
 * Wonderbook: Book of Potions
 * Harry Potter Limited Edition (Dec 2012)
 * Harry Potter: Magical Places from the Films: Hogwarts, Diagon Alley, and Beyond (2015)
 * Harry Potter: The Character Vault (2015)
 * Harry Potter: The Creature Vault
 * Harry Potter: The Artifact Vault
 * ''Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them (film) (2016)
 * ''Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them: The Original Screenplay
 * The Case of Beasts: Explore the Film Wizardry of Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them
 * Fantastic Beasts: Cases from the Wizarding World
 * Harry Potter: Hogwarts Mystery
 * Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald (2018)
 * Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald (original screenplay)
 * Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald (soundtrack)
 * The Archive of Magic: The Film Wizardry of Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald

Hello again...
Can you help me out with something, please? Maester Martin (talk) 09:29, October 21, 2018 (UTC)

I recently made some edits to the page of Cecil Lee, and Ironyak1 removed like - two thirds under the label of "spacious conjecture", and I really don't get it. I mean, I could've asked her about it, but I'm quite frankly kind of scared of even talking to Ironyak1 right now, because it feels like "immediate consequences" will be the result if I breathe wrong, let alone find myself in disagreement with you guys. And I'm not interested in another argument, I just wanted to ask if you could look over her edit and explain to me in simple terms what were supposedly "conjectural" about it, and I promise I'll just accept whatever answer you give me on the matter without complaint.

Also, I have three questions that came to mind on the subject:
 * 1) I wrote that Cecil Lee was born somewhere prior to 1953, with a reference denoting how Patricia Rakepick was born that year and had been a student of Madam Hooch's, but that she did not know who Cecil Lee was, (as in, she had no idea, not a "who are you?" "Cecil Lee", "Oh, yes... Now I remember you...", suggesting he attended Hogwarts prior to Rakepick at a point where she had yet to begin teaching there. (Nowhere in canon does it ever say Hooch had worked at Hogwarts her whole life. To use a phrase you yourself might employ in this situation; "For all we know", Rakepick's first day at Hogwarts on September 1, 1967 was Madam Hooch's first year of teaching. So - how was it conjectural? To me at least, it seems pretty definitive.
 * 2) I saw that someone edited my reference to also say "or he just wasn't memorable", which both undermined the point I was making and is, to put it at its mildest, rather naive. Not a question, just - wanted to throw it out there.
 * 3)  After the attack on Hogwarts from Grayback, I wrote that "he brought the unconscious body of Chiara Lobosca to the office of Albus Dumbledore rather than taking her back to the Ministry. He would, however, presumably have ensured her name was added to the Werewolf Registry." The bolded text is what she removed. How much of a conjecture is this really? Lee would lose his job if he didn't, and as he said, he loved his job. And just because he cut Chiara a break doesn't mean he went from being a hard-liner who wanted to eradicate all werewolves to sharing Flitwick's view on the subject with a snap of one's fingers.
 * 4) On the magical abilities and skills section, I added that Cecil had described himself as "highly trained" and henced brifely noted that he hence would have had to prove himself worthy of a place on the unit by proving he had the skill and knowledge necessary. I mean, "highly skilled -" that tells us that there is some kind of training program required to become a part of the Werewolf Capture Unit - and it's ridiculuious to think that it wouldn't be, because XXXX "requires specialist knowledge" and are creatures that "skilled wizard may handle", whereas werewolves are "XXXXX - Known wizard killer / impossible to train or domesticate", a category of creatures that one should think it would recquire both of the above, (specialist knowledge, "skilled"/skill), and then some. How is that "conjecture"?
 * 5) "Defence Against the Dark Arts: As a fully-fledged, Ministry-approved werewolf hunter, Cecil would have had to excelled on the subject of both knowing and being capable of handling himself in the face of dangerous creatures, as werewolves are both a "known wizard killer" and would require specialist knowledge to be competently confronted. He told Jacob's sibling that he had had colleagues who had been savaged and killed while out in the field, and the fact that he was still both alive and reportedly had captured several werewolves throughout his career demonstrate that he was good at his job."

How is this in any way conjectural? Werewolves are dark creatures, they are even part of the DADA curriciculum, and he works with the Werewolf Capture Unit. How on Earth is it speculative for me to say DADA isn't irrelevant to his job when it is the subject where you learn about the creatures he hunts?

Again, not looking to argue, just to understand where this "conjecture" impression are coming from. Maester Martin (talk) 14:35, October 22, 2018 (UTC)

Right - sorry. And thanks for you grammatical correction. ^^' Maester Martin (talk) 21:43, October 22, 2018 (UTC)

Quick chat?
You still around and have 5 minutes to spare? Thanks --Ironyak1 (talk) 03:34, October 26, 2018 (UTC)


 * Ping --Ironyak1 (talk) 18:12, October 26, 2018 (UTC)

Got 5 mins? Thanks ---Ironyak1 (talk) 01:28, November 14, 2018 (UTC)

Need help with moving pages!
Hi, Seth! Hope all is well! Not exactly urgent but hope to be taken care of ASAP.

About Hogwarts Quidditch Captain previously discussed in, it is not a page regular users can rename, unless manually swapping content, which I'm pretty sure is not preferred. Can you help renaming it back to Quidditch Captain? Thanks!

Same thing with Hogwarts Uniform incorrectly has the uppercase and cannot be moved back to Hogwarts uniform by regular users; please help!

Other moves/renaming... Was confused as to why Pie (disambiguation) is the way it is, as in, why "pie" is set as a disambiguation and not just simply its own page, like how cake is done; tried to be bold and just move it, and found pie deleted and locked. I think it's a very dated move, as it was done exactly 10 years ago, and it just doesn't make sense for not allowing an article for the general description of what a "pie" is and what kinds are known. Please consider helping to rename pie (disambiguation) as pie so it can be formatted as a proper article, and other pie pages can then properly link to it. Thanks! -- S a m m m ✦✧ (talk) 18:25, October 27, 2018 (UTC)

Grindelwald's Followers being wizards
Are Grindelwald's followers all wizards? I mean Grindelwald hates Muggles and maybe Squibs, so we wouldn't let them follow him, so they must be wizards right? IlvermornyWizard (talk) 18:53, October 27, 2018 (UTC) IlvermornyWizard

I think I found some vandalism? Maybe?
I still remain unable to make perfect error-reports... Oh well, I was just reading through Harry's page and someone made a lot of headings very minuscule, and the article is too big for me to edit it myself (it crashed before I could even find out if I have sufficient permission.)

Anyways, please fix this!

AzuraKitsune (talk) 14:02, October 29, 2018 (UTC)

I think those minuscule headings you are talking about are probably sub-headings cuz I can't see any such alterations on the page. So may be not a vandalism but I'm new to these things so I may be wrong.

Newt Strike (talk) 14:45, October 29, 2018 (UTC)

No, really, 'round the synopsis of Harry's years at Hogwarts they just turn tiny, I can hardly read them.

AzuraKitsune (talk) 15:32, November 1, 2018 (UTC)

My block
Granted it does not fall under the category of "disruptive and argumentative", I would very much like to discuss my recent block by Ironyak1 with you. Maester Martin (talk) 22:01, October 30, 2018 (UTC)

We can agree or disagree about to what degree it is speculative of me to maitain that someome who works in a Ministry department dedicated to magical creatures would necessarily have had to have at least some expertise on magical creatures to work there, but I was blocked for a week for re-adding a former edit on different grounds than for which it was undone in the first place, yet that particular edit and those I made before it was treated the same. While what I added was strictly speaking the same, though I reduced to state Lee was somewhat knowledgable as opposed to display him as some kind of expert, which was what had been labelled "speculative" as a basis for the whole "he was incompetent" argument. For this reason, I feel the block was premature to the point where it boardered on being immature. With respect, if I didn't know better, I would say it almost looks like Ironyak1 were looking for an excuse to hand out those immediate consequences she threatened me with following a single instance of undoing an edit I found to be inconsistent with the amount of canon information we had on the subject of the article in question. (Which, I should mention, was not Cecil Lee). Lately, she have accused me of "edit warring" in instances I have made a single "undo" on two separate articles where I have had reasons to believe changes to an article were somehow imprecise, called my addition of established canon information to an article of being "speculation", not because it is in any way incorrect, but because I forgot to source it. And instead of giving me a head's up or adding a "citation needed" maring, she instantly, as if by reflex, undid my edit. And she did it within minutes of me making it, before I had  anything that even remotely resembled a chance to realize that I have made a blunder, let alone fix it. I even now recently asked her that, if in a similar situation, she could just give me instead. (To be honest, I find the "instant-undo" thing to be almost aggressively dismissive), and based on her answer, it would appear she can't be bothered to because I apparently should know better than being capable of doing a honest mistake. And it is really, really disheartening. I tried to talk with her about it, and though she dismissed my notion that she might resent me/hold a grudge, to be honest - I really feel there are some bias involved in all of this. Unintentional, I am sure, but still. By and large, I find both this block as well as the above to be incredibly hostile and unreasonable . I mean - sure, if you honestly think what I write is speculative, by all means, you are fully within your rights to address the issue. Both as a fellow editor, and not at least as an admin. I mean, if I disagree, I disagree, and I won't be content with just keeping quiet and I pretend I don't, but as I have said more than once before, if I am doing something you don't want me to, like making a specific edit you don't want me to make or discussing to much, all you have to do is tell me not to. If you present an argument, like -  "this is speculation", I won't just accept that argument alone as a justification for undoing my edits if I have good reason to believe that's an incorrect assessment on your part, exactly because I have an invested interest in having the articles on this wiki display as much and as precise information from canon as possible. However, if you tell me explicitly not to do something, I won't. Because I acknowledge and respect your authority to make that call, even if I won't always agree with how you reached certain conclusions. Bottom line, I would greatly appreciate it if people around here used their words more and their badge less. (Not referring to you in saying that) and to, if possiblle, look on my edits with an at least somewhat greater degree of good faith, as per policy, than what they seem to be to date. Maester Martin (talk) 00:31, October 31, 2018 (UTC)

And while I appreciate both the gesture, as well as your confidence, I would still like to address the actual issue. That I have been accused of doing things that I didn't do, (like edit warring on pages where I made a single "undo", and accused to adding speculation for adding accurate information I forgot to source), and been met with nothing less than an openly hostile (if somewhat subdued) attitude and what appears to me to be balant indifference to my attempts at presenting good will, and dismissiveness when I tried to converse with Ironyak1 about how we can work together without bumping heads. All of which makes what you want me and are asking me to do uneccessarily problematic and isn't very productive. So if I may be so bold, let me be crystal clear about this: If you want me to "be a good editor", at least what goes for a good editor according to the definition you are curretly employing, please, for both our sakes, skip the ambigiousity and just give me some clear, reasonable instructions on what exactly it is you expect of me, otherwise, doing whatever you want me to do will be very difficult.

Also, while I first got you online, I hope my note in the BTS section on Circus Arcanus didn't come off as too speculative? Maester Martin (talk) 02:53, November 2, 2018 (UTC)

I always listen, and sometimes I disagree with what I hear. Now the question becomes whether I still am at liberty to voice my own opinion if I do, or if I would be better served keeping it to myself. What's your advice on that? Maester Martin (talk) 03:36, November 2, 2018 (UTC)

Or at the very least percived to be incorrect, in regard to recent edits. That aside, what about my other concerns above? Maester Martin (talk) 04:08, November 2, 2018 (UTC)

New Mod
With our introduction of House Debates, it would be a great help if MagnificentMagnus could be made a mod. Cheers,   CosmicChronos       Talk to me       Contribs    22:13, November 1, 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks!   CosmicChronos       Talk to me       Contribs    07:40, November 2, 2018 (UTC)

FW Hogwarts Mystery Nomination
FYI - User talk:Ironyak1 - in case you want to do anything related (and/or I totally forget ;) --Ironyak1 (talk) 01:57, November 2, 2018 (UTC)

Fantastic Beast 3 location?
Hey, Seth! I don't know if you already know, but kudos to HarryPotterRules1. I'm talking to him on discord, and he sent me this. I'm excited already! If it is in Brazil, then we might see the headquarters of the Brazilian Concuil of Magic! :-D

Maester Martin (talk) 16:26, November 2, 2018 (UTC)


 * I hadn't seen the twitter where she basically gave us the countries! Cool! :-D Maester Martin (talk) 19:15, November 4, 2018 (UTC)

Discussion Mod permissions
It sounded like you played a part in working with Staff to get Discussion Mods the Ban User right? If so, is it possible to follow up with this and have them granted the ability to rename categories & hide posts? It makes little sense to me that Discussion Mods are not given the full set of rights applicable to Discussions or that a Discussions Admin role is not created to package these rights together (along with possibly granting Discussion Mods rights). Just an idea if you have an in with Staff to pass it along. Cheers --Ironyak1 (talk) 18:49, November 4, 2018 (UTC)


 * I agree that it is not a priority - more just a thought to pass along should the occasion arise. Given many of the comments here, it seems clear that the permissions related to Discussions needs some reworking to help smooth out the task of moderation, whether that is special case for this wiki or a more general rearrangement of the roles and rights involved. Cheers --Ironyak1 (talk) 22:45, November 4, 2018 (UTC)

FB in Germany
Stuart Craig has suggested that FB 3 may take place in Berlin. I seem to remember JKR saying that FB 3 may take place in up to two new countries, which may suggest Brazil and Germany. Should we add it to the BTS sections?--Rodolphus (talk) 19:04, November 4, 2018 (UTC)

Done. I'm already looking forward to those German props, and for the German term for Non-magicals and possibly an official term for y Miistry.--Rodolphus (talk) 19:29, November 4, 2018 (UTC)

Question
Hi Seth, it's Harrypotterexpert101 again, and I see you closed my request to become an admin. That's fine, but the comment on it didn't make sense. The reason I didn't try to get more votes was that Ironyak1 closed my vote, saying I needed your permission to continue with the vote. So what I am saying, I would like your permission to open a new vote. If you saw my message on the CosmicChronos request, I have some good reasons why I think there should be an admin on the Discussion Board. People have been saying it is not an admins responsibility to manage the discussion board, but I think if there is someone who would like to take the position, they should be able to. I also wanted to ask something else. I was trying to get a signature like yours, but I couldn't figure it out. Could you help me?

Thanks, Harrypotterexpert101 (talk) 19:25, November 4, 2018 (UTC)

Admins and discussion- a rationale
Hi Seth,

I just wanted to clarify why the engagement issue was raised during Cosmics recent Admin application, and your subsequent request for reasons why Admins should be more active in Discussions.

Here's post by Cav1. Note that there's no further engagement beyond the inital post.

Check all of the individual accounts here- many of which haven't posted before, or at least very rarely http://harrypotter.wikia.com/d/p/3343172654596127527

Now here's similar themed post from a MOD.

Note the additional posts from the OP in an attempt to engage and all posters are regular users.

http://harrypotter.wikia.com/d/p/3258895044706362684

Now check out the responses from FANDOM editorial staff. Note that while many of these are non discussion posts- they FAR exceed any other post for 'likes'. A popular post normal can expect between 10 to 20 likes. FANDOM posts average 100 Likes and have peaked at about 200 Likes. For example:

http://harrypotter.wikia.com/d/p/3100000000000159717

http://harrypotter.wikia.com/d/p/3100000000000155539

This line of thought is inspired by the Post by Brandon Rhea of FANDOM staff who states that Likes are an encouraged form of engagement- currently the focus of the FANDOM Unified App.

As discussed with Brandon elsewhere- it's not that the Staff editorial topics are ten times better than anything posted by members- it's that members are looking to engage with FANDOM staff or in Cav1s example - an Admin.

With the release of FB2 in just days, we're already starting to miss a major opportunity to build the FANDOM, and while it's not an Admins job to encourage engagement, I'd suggest that pretty much everything we do here is a 'love job' (or did thet forget to send out my MOD cheques 😆). I'm not even sure it's a MODs 'job' to encourage engagement... but we should 'want' to build the wikia regardless..

We have a great opportunity to build here... and the best window of opportunity is approaching with speed..

The Dark Marc (talk) The Dark Marc 22:26, November 4, 2018 (UTC)

I agree Marc. No one is making the Mods and Admins and bureaucrats do their job. It is a sort of "love job" 😎

Harrypotterexpert101 (talk) 22:30, November 4, 2018 (UTC)


 * Hi Seth,
 * Thanks so much for taking the time and effort to respond in detail.

I understand your decision and have no technical comeback with which to dazzle you. Previously it's been discussed that FANDOM hasn't set up the ground work required to adequately integrate 'Old school' with newer features and I agree there are issues between the two camps that currently suffer from those conditions... ..however.. I generally believe in making the best of an opportunity - particularly such a rare one to reach a goal, even when bending the accepted rules to get there (omg my Slytherin side is coming out.). It just seemed a shame to let this chance go because on a technicality and lack of interest (which is of course completely acceptable- you're correct in that we can't force anyone to do anything.. particularly without those damn cheques..). As far as I'm aware- the local Admin option seemed the easiest to achieve within our own community- we may be best to look outside the original box at options like Global Moderator - but again that involves other duties outside the HP wikia which will be outaide the interest of anyone looking to build tge wikia in this way.

Engagement of addition members in discussions will help all aspects of the HP wikia- as a laeger membership increases the chances of a larger editing group amongst other aspects.

I'm keen to see something done despite FANDOM infrastructure not quite being ready, because we only get limited shots like this..

In any case- thanks again for your time. Hope to chat again soon

The Dark Marc (talk)

The Dark Marc 02:04, November 5, 2018 (UTC)

Just saw that IronYak1 had contributed while I wrote the above.. so editing..

I agree that the NailArt and Tribute to Snaoe posts aren't great examples of quality Topics- and this is exactly why we need a local Admin and not FANDOM editorial staff making the posts in question. If it'd been one of our mosr experienced Admin Editors posting- you'll have control of the content used to promote the wikia. HPs poor content in Discussions is at least partially due to lack of reasonable examples. It's common for question types to come in 'waves'. If one member posts a meme it trends and dozens of new members believe that's the direction the wikia is designes to take. The Star Wars wikia MODs (ex) took that to the extrwme and all lost their jobs over it- but their approach was subtractory. They removed a lot of discussion that they deemed unworthy (and in many cases- it probably was).

What I'm hoping for is that the HP leadership can learn and build on thar experience. By utilizing member engagement through using member percieved increase of connection by discussion with those most connected to the Wikia, we take the best chance of building the community AND in a direction we desire it to grow.

more soon.. my Maccas is getting cold.

The Dark Marc (talk) The Dark Marc 02:21, November 5, 2018 (UTC)

😂 Went back to the Discussions while eating.. thanks for at least testing the theory. My Slytherin heart rejoices 💚


 * IronYak1 - Maccas as in McDonalds 🍔🍟

Regards a successful wikia example.. would believe that Brandon Rhea lists the Harry Potter wikia (as it was in June) as the goal for the new Wook..

Honestly I've been a HP wikia only kind of guy since joining a couple of years back and don't have a great deal of exposure to other wikias. Those others that I have been to (asides from the old Wook) have been dismal in regards to activty and/or content.

I accept that I'm going out on a limb as far as concept- but the few examples of Leadership engagement lead me to believe we should be taking this chance. Like any sort of engagement it will take time to build up.. but with FB2 just round the corner the speed of that growth will be optimal if we start things rolling in the right direction now.

The Dark Marc (talk) The Dark Marc 03:01, November 5, 2018 (UTC)


 * Quick question... Whilst Mods have the ability to make Announcements, are we actually allowed to make them or are they only reserved for FANDOM Staff and admins on this wiki? I mean, I feel like they could be a great help to create conversations and posts that even editors would see (it appears in their notifications. I mean, just look at Cav1s post for questions to the crew behind COG... They got plenty of one time users posting, perhaps if we could promote a quality post ever so often with the announcement feature we could attract more editor users? Cheers,   CosmicChronos       Talk to me       Contribs    15:49, November 5, 2018 (UTC)


 * Well.. I know it's only been a day, but I'm a losss to explain the difference between FANDOMs editorial Posts, Cav1s post and the post made yesterday.. any one want to help me setup my NailArt wikia?


 * The Dark Marc Slytherincrest.jpg(talk)


 * So... Hashtags for the best engagement??
 * http://harrypotter.wikia.com/d/p/3100000000000171324


 * The Dark Marc Slytherincrest.jpg(talk)


 * Alright, I just made the announcement, let's see how it works out. Cheers,   CosmicChronos       Talk to me       Contribs    16:37, November 8, 2018 (UTC)

Fiona Glasscot as McGonagall?
Hello, Seth: Is thre some kind of official confirmation from Warner Bros that she's playing McGonagall? The plot hole aside, I did some googling, and based on three recent articles I looked over, it would appear we don't know anything for certain. One says "may", one says "might" and one says "reportedly". Also, The sources provided i Glasscot's article confirm that she is in the movie, but I didn't see any mention of the name "Minerva McGonagall" that I could see. Am I missing something? Maester Martin (talk) 02:46, November 5, 2018 (UTC)

Question
hey Seth, sorry for bothering you, but I have a question. How do people usually tell people about getting user rights? I have tried to tell people, but it never works, no one ever visits the Harry Potter Wiki:Requests for permissions unless they follow it.

Cheers, Harrypotterexpert101 (talk) 23:42, November 6, 2018 (UTC)

Please get back to me as soon as possible 😀.

Cheers, Dave (talk) 02:40, November 8, 2018 (UTC)


 * Hello Seth, thanks so much for your response! It is much appreciated. Would you mind doing the Community Message? Thanks so much! Your the best!


 * Dave (talk) 01:12, November 9, 2018 (UTC)

Discussion Contests??
Hi Seth,

I was just looking through some (much) older posts and ran across this:

http://harrypotter.wikia.com/contest

Is this something we can get reproduced for FB2? It looks purely FANDOM staff created..

The Dark Marc (talk) edit- accidentally missed the heading the first time. Deleted and repost.

Administrator Question
Hello Seth, sorry to bother you again, but I had a question about running wiki's. I am currently an admin/bureaucrat on two wiki's, and I am always getting Global Discussion Moderators and Vangaurd user coming and blocking people. My question is: am I allowed to prohibit them from doing this? It's getting super annoying, they're blocking people for unnecessary reasons (a new user was blocked because he accidentally deleted all of the content from a page). Another question is about the "Community Messages" and " You've got an owl" things. How do you get those and how do you get a community messages page?

Thanks so much, Dave (talk) 04:56, November 12, 2018 (UTC)


 * Do you mind taking a look at the page for me? It won't let me edit it...


 * Nevermind, I figured it out. Thanks so much!

--Dave (talk) 04:10, November 13, 2018 (UTC)

Just a short question
The visual editor is seriously annoying me, do you know how to disable it? If so, would you please tell me?

Thanks! AzuraKitsune (talk) 20:46, November 13, 2018 (UTC)


 * FYI, I posted a quick reply. Saves you some time, enough perhaps to get some sleep (for in dreams we enter a world that is entirely our own ;) Cheers --Ironyak1 (talk) 23:54, November 13, 2018 (UTC)

Re Peace
Hey Seth, You're right about me longer caring about the vote. My brief experience trying to make some small bridge between Discussions and Editing has left me disillusioned and convinced that I'm wasting my time. You were right about not being able to make anyone do something they don't want to do.

My original concerns still stand personally- anyone who believes in being toxic is ok as long as you don't use profanity is trouble imho. but I choose not to let it become my problem.

As I'm no longer a MOD I see very little chance of us needing to correspond in the future.

Good luck building the wikia.

The Dark Marc (talk)

Admin Question
So who is technically holding my vote? Whatever admin is holding it, cannot vote (as read in the Voting Policy). So your against vote does not technically count, does it? Or were you just commenting like Reverb? And also, I am very sorry you feel that way about me. I did not mean to offend you in any way. I applied to be an administrator to close the discussions -editing gap. The people in discussions feel they don't know anything about the editing part of the wiki. But I have both been apart of the discussion board and edited before, so I am more than happy to close the gap between the two. Dave (talk) 06:23, November 15, 2018 (UTC)

Uagadou and Castelobruxo houses
Hey! Fandom recently released an article about Hufflepuff house, in it they mention "unknown" houses from Uagadou and Castelobruxo: "Or a now-unknown house from Brazil’s Castlobruxo, or Uganda’s Uagadou?".

Can this confirm that both of these schools had houses, and this should therefore be added to respective articles? Cheers,   CosmicChronos       Talk to me       Contribs    12:45, November 15, 2018 (UTC)

Error
So, I went to look at that video with the fandom questions to the Fantastic Beasts cast, and, I've noticed the problem a while ago, I can't play the video.

It's the same with all the other videos.

Here's the error message: This video file cannot be played.(Error Code: 239000) Do you know this particular error message, is there something to fix it? If so, please let me know!Cheers! Azura (Inconvenience me here!)

Wordmark and Background
Hello! I'm just letting you know that because of the release of Crimes of Grindelwald I have taken it upon myself to update the site's wordmark and background. This was mainly because the old wordmark had the block of white around the actual logo rather than the transparency that would have allowed it to blend in with the header color. I used the current font style for Crimes of Grindelwald to tie in with the film, and also used promotional material to update the background which was still using images from Fantastic Beasts. I have also updated the main page slider with more relevant articles for the new film.

Usually I look for input when making changes like this that affect the way the site looks in a significant way, but I felt that the update was needed due to the release of the new movie so I apologise if the change is sudden or jarring. In hindsight I should I have done this earlier and gotten input from the administration team so if you feel any changes need to be made, or the changes reverted, then please let me know. Hopefully though, the design rework is acceptable. Once the film is over, I will endeavour to create a new permanent wordmark that looks better in the header space. - Cavalier One ( Wizarding Wireless Network ) 14:00, November 19, 2018 (UTC)

Oh, by the way:
On a separate issue, I have noticed a whole lot of hyperbole and misconceptions about the movies be added to the magical abilities and skills sections of Grindelwald and Dumbledore, and I spent quite some time last night cleaning up the former. They appear to primarily come from AnitaSalim, though I daresay there is no reason to think she does it on purpose. I just wondered if you could give her recent contribrutions a look, or something? Maester Martin (talk) 13:04, November 24, 2018 (UTC)

Of course! :-)

Sorry if I seem like I have a stick up my behind. In addition to the fact that we are closing in on Christmas, which highlights the fact that my Dad isn't here anymore, I also got a phone call last night telling me my aunt has been diagnosed with cancer and is at the hospital. It's a treatable kind, but I still know very little. So yeah - I think the stress just got to me, I guess. I promise I will be more courteous to you on the talk page from hereon out. ^^' Maester Martin (talk) 13:15, November 24, 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, mate. Life's never easy, is it? And don't worry, you don't. I only worry I come across as curt or disrespectful. Maester Martin (talk) 14:51, November 24, 2018 (UTC)

Btw; Another user I believe guilty of unintentional hyperbole is 8th Hero of Olympus. I think you should check out them as well. Maester Martin (talk) 15:11, November 24, 2018 (UTC)

Aragog's Lair
Hi there, Seth! =D Hope all is well!

So this has been a while, but remember about my misunderstanding about "colony" (such as Forbidden Forest Acromantula colony) as mentioned in ?

I belatedly realized there's this page: Aragog's Lair, however, when sorting out TCG undefined pages, I also found the card In the Spider's Lair, so it seems like was not the first to refer the place where Forbidden Forest Acromantula colony resides as "Spider's Lair"; was wondering if "a lair of Aragog's" needed to be specified out of the rest of the Forbidden Forest Acromantula colony, or if it's okay to just rename "Aragog's Lair" to "Spider's Lair"; since judging from the article, it was only known to be called as "Aragog's Lair" in one source, whereas "Spider's Lair" has two. Your thoughts? =D

-- S a m m m ✦✧ (talk) 02:03, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

Rename page
Should French Ministry of Magic Archives page be renamed to French Ministry of Magic Records room? The room is called the records room in the screenplay rather than archives. IlvermornyWizard (talk) 02:36, November 23, 2018 (UTC) IlvermornyWizard

Delete pages
I know it's quite a lot of work, but I was wondering if the pages left over from being renamed could be deleted, in particular the Lestrange family pages recently created? IlvermornyWizard (talk) 02:36, November 23, 2018 (UTC) IlvermornyWizard

Grindelwald's followers infobox theme.
Can you please add a infobox theme for Grindelwald's followers? (Because only admins can edit the MediaWiki:InfoboxColours.css page). Since Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald came out, there are many pages about his followers.

(talk) 23:41, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

That is why I put them as Death Eaters--Trompa (talk) 03:58, November 30, 2018 (UTC)

COG & McGonagall
Hey - now that you've seen COG, what'd you think? More pointedly, what's your thoughts on Minerva McGonagall and her date of birth issue? There has been plenty of action on Talk:Minerva McGonagall and Hypable has an article trying to reconcile the timeline (by introducing a long (never before mentioned) leave of absence), so figured we should probably try and come to an agreement on how to handle this info. Thoughts appreciated! Cheers --Ironyak1 (talk) 03:58, November 27, 2018 (UTC)

Sorry for butting in, but I just read the article in question and I, for one, would say whoever wrote it are trying to shoehorn a leave of absence that's not even hinted at in canon to reconcile the inreconcilable. I am no less a fan of J.K. Rowling than anyone else here, but on this particular instance, I'd say it simply is a case of Rowling falling afoul of the trend some oiginators of good stories sometimes are guilty of partaking in, where Rowling disregarded her own canon for the sake of fan service, and hoped that either nobody noticed, or she didn't care that it was a contradiction. Maester Martin (talk) 08:35, December 1, 2018 (UTC)

A Treasure Cover of Hogwarts Mystery!
Hello, I found a YouTube channel with videos all the way up to Year 5, Chapter 16, despite the fact that when I asked about it on the HPM Discord Channel, they're not even out yet. A glitch, as far as I know, and - well - I know I kind of fell out of habit of working on Rakepick, but - I swear, many of the articles of characters and events are crimially outdated/lack substantial updates.

Maybe worth checking out? ^^' Maester Martin (talk) 08:23, December 1, 2018 (UTC)

Hey, friend
Can I ask you about something? How did Bellatrix Lestrange and Dolores Umbridge become evil? Did they have any good traits before becoming purely evil witches?Kintobor (talk) 17:20, December 1, 2018 (UTC)Kintobor

Motivations Survey
Hi Seth Cooper

I’m doing a study about the motivations of Wikia contributors, and you’ve been contacted as you are listed as an active admin of this wiki. Would you be willing to fill out a survey to provide data for this study? Thanks for your consideration.

Survey Link

 Tower12346 06:09,3/12/2018 <span style="border-top-width:1px;border-right-width:1px;border-bottom-width:1px;border-top-style:solid;border-right-style:solid;border-bottom-style:solid;border-top-color:rgb(255,215,0);border-right-color:rgb(255,215,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(255,215,0);border-top-right-radius:1ex;border-bottom-right-radius:1ex;background-image:-webkit-gradient(linear,0%0%,0%100%,color-stop(0.35,rgb(68,68,68)),color-stop(0.65,rgb(0,0,0)));color:rgb(255,215,0);">

Coloured Cells
Hi Seth Cooper,

My main focus is finishing the 'Known Gryffindors' etc. tables on the house team pages. However, I have an idea! On the header cells of said tables, why don't we make them the house colour (Ravenclaw's headers blue, Hufflepuff's yellow etc.)

Do you like this?

Gryffindor = 740001

Ravenclaw = 424E78

Hufflepuff = ECB939

Slytherin = 3D6B58

Also, I am going to make a small table for Ilvermorny houses. Do you like this for the header cells?

Ilvermorny = AE2851

RainbowBubbles3 (talk) 18:25, December 3, 2018 (UTC)

Delete image
Please delete File:EAF5A7B2-DA62-4B95-8187-204FC3B95C58.jpeg. The image is really poor quality and has a really long, confusing name. IlvermornyWizard (talk) 08:48, December 6, 2018 (UTC) IlvermornyWizard

I unfortunately have two more for you to delete; File:3F825C99-93FB-4261-A60F-53DFB5915C5E.jpeg and File:Dumbledore teaching Leta.jpg. The first one is the same as the one I asked you to delete before and the second is a duplicate image. IlvermornyWizard (talk) 07:53, December 11, 2018 (UTC) IlvermornyWizard

Blog post in main namespace
Was actually surprised that the latest rename (in order to appear in the correct namespace) suggestion was accepted, in that case, previously there were a few more in the same situation, but were instead just deleted:
 * https://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Book_Talk:_Harry_Potter_Books_1-8
 * https://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Mandela_effect_HP_4_and_7.
 * https://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Dobby,_The_underrated_house_elf
 * https://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/7th_Child_and_7th_Horcrux:_A_Theory_on_Why_Harry_and_Ginny_are_Destined_for_Each_Other

Figured I'd bring attention to them. -- S a m m m ✦✧ (talk) 21:30, December 6, 2018 (UTC)

Daily Prophet articles
Can the names of the Daily Prophet articles/headlines no longer be all caps and change it to how it's now with the Fantastic Beast series? IlvermornyWizard (talk) 21:56, December 7, 2018 (UTC) IlvermornyWizard

Re: Coloured Cells
What do you think?

RainbowBubbles3 (talk) 10:22, December 8, 2018 (UTC)

Re: Coloured Cells
First of all, no problem. My internet has been off for 2 days, so please excuse that.

Second of all, I quite like it myself, particularly Gruffindor and Hufflepuff. However, I see what you mean a little as well - if you want to change my colours around a bit I'm fine with that, or scrap it completely.

RainbowBubbles3 (talk) 20:27, December 11, 2018 (UTC)

Parisian Diagon Alley
I'm confused on what the name of the Parisian version of Diagon Alley is. One article says the name is Rue Claudel, but User:Evangelyn says the name is Montmarte. It may say the name somewhere on the map, but it's too small and difficult to even read. From the way the map works, it seems the Muggle locations like the streets and such seem to be on top and the wizarding locations on the bottom like how Place Furstenberg is on top and the Entree to the Ministeres des Affaires Magiques de la France is on the bottom and same thing for Circus Arcanus. IlvermornyWizard (talk) 20:46, December 12, 2018 (UTC) IlvermornyWizard
 * Then what is to be done with the Rue Claudel page and all information on it? There's information on the wizarding strict and shops, but if it isn't the name of it, then it has to be moved to the right page and have it straightened out. IlvermornyWizard (talk) 23:40, December 12, 2018 (UTC) IlvermornyWizard


 * Saw your response on IlvermornyWizard's talk page: "Though I don't know if we ought to put much stock in the "Rue Claudel" or "Rue Girardon" reports, seeing as I don't recall them being mentioned in the film (though, to be honest, it's possible they can be visible as blink-and-you'll-miss-it detail or something "; the name "Rue Girardon" is visibly labeled on file:LePointPop-001.jpg, file:LePointPop-002.jpg, and file:LePointPop-003.jpg (number "4"), so I'd say to still put some stock in "Rue Girardon" lol. Unless MinaLima Design sharing the info of their design is considered less canon that is.
 * -- S a m m m ✦✧ (talk) 01:10, December 13, 2018 (UTC)