Talk:Dolores Umbridge/Archive 1

Wikipedia
dI think i am going to merge the Wikipedia Version with the one that exists here and create sort of a hybrid article. Rev.Potter 06:19, 15 Sep 2005 (UTC)

I have abandoned my attempt and if anyone wants to do this for me the Wikipedia Article is located at Dolores Umbridge/WikipediaVersion Rev.Potter 06:26, 15 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Actually, according to wikia's policy, you shouldn't put text from a wikipedia article in a wikia article.

Slytherin
The infobox is slytherin, what's the source Umbridge is slytherin????&mdash; Darthtyler Talk 01:42, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

There isnt one but it seemed apropriate given the evedince supporting the theroy.KickAssJedi 20:29, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Ive created a unique infobox to counter the problem.KickAssJedi 21:33, 1 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't see how the infobox should be Slytherin. There is no proof that she was in fact a Slytherin - therefore we should use the character infobox, which has been customized for this particular character. -- DarkJedi613 (Talk) 00:47, 26 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed.--\\Captain KickAssJedi// 14:41, 1 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Evenso there is another hint for Umbridge being a Slytherin. In the HBP when Slughorn talks about how she insulted the centaurs he say "Idiotic woman. Nerver liked her." Thereby ist is much more likely he already knew her when teaching before his retirement. --NelsonMuntz 17:41, November 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * That doesn't support the fact that she was in Slytherin. Remember that Slughorn knew (and was quite fond of) Lily Evans, despite she was in Gryffindor. --  Seth Cooper  owl post! 22:42, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

Umbridge is most of a Ravenclaw because of following the orders of the Minstery cause Ravenclaws do follow the rules.Smgreenmusic.101 14:03, July 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's revealed in DH16 that Snape was the first Slytherin Headmaster since Phineas Nigellus. So Umbridge couldn't have been in Slytherin. ★ S t a r s t u f f (Owl me!) 15:29, July 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * It is highly possible that since the Headmaster's office was closed to her, that she didn't count as headmaster though. --JKoch Ravenclawcrest.jpg(Owl Me! ) 19:07, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with the previous writer, I mean all the people on the Inquisitorial Squad were members of Slytherin save Filch as he's a Squib and only the Syltherin hourglass wasn't affected. I would bet at least Ten Galleons that she was one as her personality fits in no where else. Ztyran 23:50, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

I mean, I do agree that she was probably in Slytherin, but just because their personality doesn't seem to fit a certain house doesn't mean that they weren't in that house (ex. Lockhart was in Ravenclaw, and do you think Lockhart is intelligent and a quick-thinker?).


 * So why does it still say she's in Slytherin when there is no proof?
 * Because she was in Slytherin. This discussion is over five years old and out of date-- it has now been officially stated by Rowling that Umbridge was in Slytherin. ProfessorTofty (talk) 01:15, March 17, 2013 (UTC)

Not sure that Slughorn's "never liked her" was anything more than an about face - he seemed pretty positive towards her before Harry filled him in with a few details. Look at Slughorn's fondness for the young Tom Riddle that he was trying to rewrite based on new info. Slughorn has a whole history of, instead of admitting that he was wrong about somebody or that he has changed his mind about them, tends to like to pretend that he always thought the way he does now. Bribery and cronyism is part and parcel of his mode of operation, those he likes / thinks that he can exploit get favoured treatment - Lily he truly liked because he could not gain from her. Slughorn's only good quality is that he is repulsed by murder - so when Harry mentioned the Dementor attack etc, Slughorn changed his mind about her and pretended he held the view all along. (Vaudree (talk) 03:07, October 31, 2015 (UTC))

Date of Birth
Anyone have any idea as to when Umbridge was born?

Early 50s. She left Hogwarts before 1971 because of her lack of knowledge of the Maraunders.

Well, Snape DID attend Hogwarts with the Maraunders, and didn't know their nick-names, so perhaps she did go there by the time, but that the names wasn't common knowledge. Just like Lupin didn't know about the Half-Blood Prince.

Wikification
this article needs to have its refrences to the real world removed in order to configure to wiki policy. 08:06, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Name Origin
As the Spanish 'dolores' most certainly comes from the Latin 'dolor' (of the same meaning), and there are certainly very many other Latin-related words in the books, wouldn't it make more sense to say that her name comes from the Latin? Also, 'umbra' is (in some of its many meanings) darkness, shadow or shade. 124.170.120.53 11:08, 18 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Umbrage is an actual word, you know. And it is pronounced the same as Umbridge.  24.49.35.99 22:00, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

Here are some beginning notes on the word Umbrage for someone who wants to dig deeper.


 * umbrage (from) ombrage (MF) (from) umbraticum, umbraticus (from) umbratus (from) umbrare (from) umbra;

--ombrage=(orig) shade, shadow (later) umbrage, offense; obrage (from) ombra -age;


 * umbrage=(orig) shadow, shade, shady branches, trees providing shade, foilage providing shade, leaves providing shade, (later) shadowy outline, semblance, indistinct indication, vague suggestion,(later) grounds for suspicion, suspicion, (later) suspicion one has been slighted, offense, annoyance, resentment, displeasure, odium;




 * umbraticum, umbraticus=pertaining to shade, found in the shade, in the shade, relating to shade; --umbraticum, umbraticus (from) umbra -aticus;


 * ombra=shade, shadow, darkness, ghost; --ombra (from) umbra;
 * umbra=shade, shadow, shady place, protection, idleness, pleasant rest, semblance, phantom, ghost, uninvited guest, fish;


 * umbrare=to shade, to overshadow;


 * -aticus, -aticum=pertaining to; (Vaudree (talk) 15:59, December 29, 2015 (UTC))

Headmistress
I changed the section "Headmistress" to High Inquisitor because she became High Inquisitor before Headmistress - Voltage624 22:57, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Death Eater
So is this confirmed by JK recently? She does a lot of after-book additions. Mafalda Hopkirk 02:27, 26 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think so. I think it's speculation.  I'll have a check around, but I'll remove it for now. -  Cavalier One ( Wizarding Wireless Network ) 11:16, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, she didn't join Voldemort until he took over the Ministry. Even if she might have not been a Death Eater, she was still a traitor. 68.228.149.192 20:47, 26 January 2008 (UTC)


 * though bear in mind she was also wearing the horcrux locket, so whether or not she joined him, she may have been becoming him Sandpiper 21:14, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Well...no. It makes people more prone to their darker side...not controlled by VoldyUser:Matoro183 21:17, 26 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I believe she just jumped on the bandwagon and attached herself to where the power was. Remember she was a strong supporter of Fudge when he was Minister.  She saw what way the wind was blowing and fell into line. -  Cavalier One ( Wizarding Wireless Network ) 12:31, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Being a evil punk hating anything not pureblood helped a lot, too.--Boris Baran (talk) 20:18, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

In Azkaban?
where does this information come from? can you add a source or citation? thanks! Bastet13 03:58, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know who posted it, but JKR said this of Umbridge in an interview: "She was arrested, interrogated and imprisoned for crimes against Muggleborns." (archived 2013-12-16) Oread 04:10, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I found it here's the link http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2007/7/30/j-k-rowling-web-chat-transcript Alumeng (pre-emptively archived 2015-07-22 at ) 17:42, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

Middle name
From Rowling´s homepage, it is known that her first name once was Elvira. The page states that this is her middle name. Shouldn´t it be deleted?--Rodolphus 11:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it should. Her middle name is Jane (OP28)--Thorning 15:46, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Disease
Could we add trivia about "Umbridge-itis"? I know it's pointless and silly, but that's why it should go in trivia.--68.217.137.36 16:24, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * What is "Umbridge-itis" I've never heard of it. -- DarkJedi613 (Talk) 20:37, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

"Shrieking with rage and frustration she attempted to trace the mysteries symptoms to their source, but the students told her stubbornly they were suffering 'Umbridge-itis.'"

- Students using Skiving snackboxes -- 22:05, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think it needs to be included; it's not a real disease. "-itis" is a medical suffix that means "inflammation of"; they students are simply telling Umbridge that her dictatorship irritates them.  --Cubs Fan2007 22:47, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

you-tube?
Is it alright to have you tube clips in articles? ~I <font face="Times" color="darkred">l <font face="Arial" color="red">u <font face="Arial" color="dimgrey">v <font face="Arial" color="darkred">g <font face="Arial" color="red">r <font face="Arial" color="dimgrey">a <font face="Arial" color="darkred">c <font face="Arial" color="red">i <font face="Arial" color="dimgrey">e <font face="Arial" color="darkred">1 <font face="Arial" color="red">2 <font face="Arial" color="dimgrey">9 <font face="Arial" color="Red">(Talk) 01:52, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

House
I know Rowling never states which House Umbridge came from, but I want to see what fans think. I personally think see came from Slytherin. Please say which House you think Umbridge came from below.--Bella Goth 16:33, 25 July 2009 (UTC)Bella Goth


 * The Wizengamot archive - Forum:Umbridge's House - Nick O&#39;Demus 19:29, 25 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Hufflepuff. She was loyal to the ministry, dedicated to her pure-blood fanatism, and her most frequent accusation towards Harry was that he wasn't telling the truth.
 * While she has the traditionalism you'd see in Slytherin, you could get those ideals in any old pure-blood family. She doesn't seem awfully ambitious either. Rather than going for the minister post she seems happy to sit in his shadow. Her stint with the kentaurs shows some awful self-preservation. (*cough* granted, Malfoy did the same infront of a Hippogriff, but he was 13).Aryllia 07:42, January 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * I thougt she was in ravenclaw. I think at some point she said she was.Ewokscanfly (talk) 13:21, April 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Let us take all the 4 houses into consideration.


 * Gryffindor- Umbridge was definetely never a Gryffindor because when she was at Hogwarts, she constantly discriminated against the Gryffindor students. Her hatred for Gryffindor is genuine. She also did not have any of the Gryffindor qualities such as bravery and chivalry.
 * Hufflepuff- Umbridge was also not a Hufflepuff. Hufflepuffs value fair play, honesty and loyalty. Umbridge never showed true loyalty to any Minister for Magic. She just used them- even the Voldemort-controlled Pius Thicknesse- for her own ambitions. She was the epitome of dishonesty; she was ready to lie through her teeth just to further her progress at the Ministry- such as lying that she was related to the pure-blood Selwyn family. She also behaved unfairly to people she hated, such as Gryffindor students, half-breeds, werewolves, blood-traitors and Muggle-borns.
 * Ravenclaw- Umbridge could have been a Ravenclaw student while at Hogwarts. Ravenclaws are smart no doubt, but not necessarily competent witches/wizards. Lockhart is such an example. Throughout the series, it is evident that Umbridge was not a highly competent witch, but was smart enough to be working in a high position at the Ministry of Magic, notwithstanding her influence with every Minister for Magic. She was clever and intelligent enough to support any Minister for Magic for achieving her goals. Ravenclaws care more about themselves than others, another trait which Umbridge has. Ravenclaws have a good amount of ambition too, and Umbridge is highly ambitious. She was also a strict disciplinarian and adhered to the rules most of the time, another Ravenclaw trait. She adhered to all the Ministry policies, whether fair or unfair. She also has lot of feminine tastes, such as her love for the colour pink and cats. And there is a decent amount of evidence in the series to suggest that Ravenclaw girls are highly feminine in nature. However her power-hungry and oppurtunistic nature may suggest that she may not have been a Ravenclaw.
 * Slytherin- There is reasonable evidence to suggest that Umbridge could also have been a Slytherin. She was power-hungry, oppurtunistic and ambitious, which are all typical Slytherin characteristics. In Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, she wore a green scarf during the Gryffindor-Slytherin match, which indicates that she could have been a Slytherin student during her time at Hogwarts (Slytherin colours are green and silver). She was biased in favour of pure-bloods (though not necessarily a Slytherin characteristic, most Slytherin students and Salazar Slytherin himself favoured pure-bloods and derided others). She showed a great degree of self-preservation (another Slytherin characteristic) which is evident when she wanted to protect herself rather than Harry and Hermione from the centaurs. She favoured Slytherins while she was at Hogwarts, with her Inquistorial Squad comprising entirely of Slytherins and her immediate granting of permission for the Slytherin Quidditch Team to play following the imposition of Educational Decree Number 24. Her anti-Gryffindor stance also qualifies her to be a Slytherin. However according to Phineas Nigellus, Severus Snape was the first Slytherin Hogwarts Headmaster since himself, which indicates that Umbridge may not have been a Slytherin, but that may also be because none of the old Headmasters/Headmistresses recognised Umbridge as a Headmistress.


 * So IMO, Umbridge could mostly have been in Slytherin while at Hogwarts, but Ravenclaw is not counted out either. 59.92.185.50 06:26, May 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * JK Rowling recently confirmed that Umbridge was a Slytherin. See it here. - <font face="Monotype Corsiva" size="4" color="FF8000">Nick O'Demus 06:34, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

Weak patronus?
Umbridge's infobox says that she has a weak patronus. Is there a source for this? All I remember from Deathly Hallows is that Harry noted the cat was particularly strong when she was interrogating Muggle-borns, as she was "in her prime."

Weak patronus?
Umbridge's infobox says that she has a weak patronus. Is there a source for this? All I remember from Deathly Hallows is that Harry noted the cat was particularly strong when she was interrogating Muggle-borns, as she was "in her prime." --Parodist 15:21, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Umbridge on Tight Rope
It says that the Umbridge doll on the tight rope is saying "I will have order." But I think it actually says, "I will have water." This may seem odd, but the doll is balancing two buckets of water on it's shoulder. My guess is that it is a play-on-words, as it does sound a lot like "I will have order" in her British accent.


 * There is no such thing as a 'British accent -_- Colincreevaz 17:45, September 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes there is. Everybody has an accent, you just don't notice the ones you're exposed to all the time. Every place has at least slightly different accents. -Shorty1982 18:31, September 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * You are correct in that everybody has an accent, however, there is no more "British" accent than there is "American" accent; you can find English, Scottish, Welsh, Londoner, East Londoner, Irish and Oxford (AKA "Queen's English", "BBC English" and "Received Pronunciation [RP]") all under the banner of "British English". By the same token, you see New York, Chicago, Southern (several flavours), Texan, Californian, Valley, Midwest, North Dakota, Hawaiian and Miami [among others], all under the banner of "American English". Sings-With-Spirits 22:11, September 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * You're right that there is no one "British" accent but even if one doesn't recognize the exact accent they can usually recognize the general part of the world the person is from by their accent. I can't tell the difference between Londoner, East Londoner, Oxford, etc. accents but I can tell their from England. -Shorty1982 22:20, September 20, 2011 (UTC)

Infobox
As with Lucius Malfoy it seems that Umbridge's current infobox is no longer appropriate given the fact that she was fired from the Ministry and thrown in Azkaban after Voldemort's death. Does anyone have any thoughts on what we should change it to? Jayden Matthews 21:57, October 26, 2009 (UTC)


 * Of course, I agree with you. Maybe we should alter it to "Wizard" infobox, or the unique pink infobox we had before? -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 22:13, October 26, 2009 (UTC)


 * Or somebody could make an "Azkaban convict" infobox. It could also apply to Morfin and Marvolo Gaunt, and Barty Crouch Jr.'s mother. - <font face="Monotype Corsiva" size="4" color="FF8000">Nick O'Demus 09:55, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

The only problem with that plan is it would render the DE infobox largley redundent, as all those who were captured after the battle of Hogwarts would also use it. Jayden Matthews 09:57, October 27, 2009 (UTC)


 * Not necessarily (at least not yet). It hasn't been confirmed who among the Death Eaters went to Azkaban after the war, and who escaped or was killed. Their last confirmed affiliation would still be Death Eater. Of course, that may change if/when Rowling publishes her HP encyclopdia. - <font face="Monotype Corsiva" size="4" color="FF8000">Nick O'Demus 10:04, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

I would say that Umbridge was a dark witch. The Blood Quill is a use of dark magic and there is somw dispute whether she wanted to use the Killing Curse on Harry and Hermoine but it is not confirmed. However, an Azkaban infobox is an extremely good idea and I would back it up!

I've changed the infobox to individual until an official decision is reached. Sporadic use of dark magic doesn't make her a dark witch anymore thn it does Harry or Mcgonagall. Jayden Matthews 13:38, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

I have to agree with Jayden. Calling Umbridge a Dark Witch is giving her far too much credit anyway. I think it safe to say that she is a very sadistic, cruel and prejudice witch, though.--Yin&amp;Yang 13:46, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

I would really like an Azkaban Convict infobox. <font face="Courier"> Tur bo  Golf  17:11, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Good point Nick! And yes Ying&Yang, you're right. Nasty as she was, she wasn't dark. She opposed the dark arts, and anything that violated the laws of her precious Fudge. I support the new infobox. Although I'd suggest calling it just "criminal individual infobox", so it can apply to a wider variety of charcters, including Grindlewald and Mundungus. Jayden Matthews 19:03, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

I tend to a gree with the creation of a convict infobox, but I would call it convict, not criminal. All dark wizards are criminal. Thus, it would make both the dark Wizard and the Death Eater one unnecessary.--Rodolphus 19:10, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Sound's good. So, are we in agreement on the "convict individual infobox"? Or does anyone else have any thoughts on Umbridge's infobox? Jayden Matthews 11:02, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

"Convict individual" has my vote. I think it sums up Umbridge in a nut-shell perfectly.--Yin&amp;Yang 11:12, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

To be fair, she was involved with dark wizards and used their magic unlike Harry and McGonagall who use it for good. But Azkaban convict gets my vote!

I agree!! -- <font color="Green">GrouchMan (<font color="Green" size="1">Send an owl then scram!! ) 22:03, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

Technically she never used any dark magic. She attempted, and failed to use the cruciatus curse on Harry. Harry, on the other hand used sectumsempra, the cruciates curse and the imperious curse on several occasions. Do we need to vote on the creation of a new infobox? Jayden Matthews 08:34, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

Technically. Jayden was a dark witch. I don't wanna cause any umbrage, bruv, but the blood quill was dark arts. She also was affiliated with Dark wizards. She used magic to torture and cause trouble. A dark wizard/witch is a witch/wizard who uses magic for bad reasons. Harry, McGonagall, Snape used magic for good (except for Snape he used to use magic for experiment and for his own good). Umbridge fits the DW! However, I do think you're right. We should vote for a Convict Individual

No, a dark witch/wizard is someone who actively studies and practices that dak arts on a regular basis, which Umbridge never did. There is no source that says the blood quill is dark magic. Seeing as how they used to chain up and flog Hogwarts students, and McGonagall comments on Umbridge's "medievil" methods, it seems likely that the blood quill was used to discipline students in the past and is therfore unlikely to be dark magic. Anyway, how do we get this vote underway? Jayden Matthews 16:37, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

No, a dark witch/wizard is some one who practises dark magic normally for experiment, power, or other bad reasons. YOU CAN'T DENY!! The Order used dark magic to kill enemies. JK Rowling said Blood quill is dark magic. By the way, with infoboxes I have started a forum that way people could vote. There is also another villian who needs an infobox, Rita Skeeter.

Like I said before, saying that Umbridge is a Dark Witch is giving her too much credit. She may have dabbled in the use of certain Dark spells and objects (e.g. the Blood Quill), but she never fully practised the Dark Arts to the extent of Voldemort or even Grindelwald. Although she assisted the Death Eaters during their reign over the Ministry, she was never inducted as one of them. Remember, her loyalties were more towards authority and authoritative figures than the Dark Order. This is why she opted to follow the ways of both Fudge and subsequently, the Death Eaters. All in all, Umbridge is nothing but a ... well, what Molly Weasley called Bellatrix Lestrange before their duel.--Yin&amp;Yang 03:00, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Jayden. Umbridge is not known to have studied the Dark Arts. And Good and Evil is always a thing of Point of View. In Voldemort´s and Umbridge´s eyes, they used the Dark Arts for good reasons too. (although it weren´t, in my opinion.) --Rodolphus 08:10, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Please provide a quote for Rowling saying that the blood quill is a dark artifact. Umbridge was a facist who sucked up to the establishmet regardless of who was in charge of it, because she loved being in a position of authority. However she never used any dark magic in the books. Saying she was a dark witch because she worked for the Ministry when it was under Death Eater control is highly illogical. By your reasoning Reg Cattermole was a dark wizard. Jayden Matthews 08:37, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

No, I think Yin&Yang is right. However, she is a dark witch. Blood Quill is a dark artifact. She would have been more into politics but she did use alot of dark magic to get what she want. Maybe to the extent of most dark wizards but to the extent that makes her evil. By the way Rodophus, she was evil. Don't come up with lunacy saying it is opinions because you are indicating amorality which according to my opinion is like Voldemort- that is evil!

Please tell me where abouts in the books or films she uses alot of dark magic. Jayden Matthews 14:40, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

It´s your opinion, not mine. I don´t want to insult anyone, but Umbridge´s attempted Unforgivable Curses never worked. No, no, I still think Convict would be the only fitting infobox: Although, if I think about it more, Umbridge may be a Dark Witch. (And I´m not amoral.) --Rodolphus 15:17, November 1, 2009 (UTC)


 * When did she "use alot of dark magic to get what she wanted"? Also, a Dark wizard is one who actively studies the Dark Arts and/or practices them. Umbridge was never shown to have done such things (despite she intended to do so, once). As for the Blood Quill, I have to say that it most likely isn't a Dark arifact (if Rowling has said it, please do kindly provide a source) seen as she openly used it on students inside a school. It was, as McGonagall puts it, a mere "medieval" and cruel means of punishment. -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 16:44, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

No offense to those opposing the change of the infobox message to "convict", but majority does rule. I think that most of us agree that Umbridge is not a Dark Witch but more of a sadistic "toad". So Jayden, or whomever it was who had the idea of changing the infobox, feel free to do it.--Yin&amp;Yang 11:48, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

It is 12th Doctor who had the idea actually. Jayden part of the fun of reading is to make unrevealed bits up for your self. The chances that Blood Quill is not a dark artifact is 1 in 157. The Ministry was not aware of all sources of dark arts and Umbridge was aware of that. She used the Horcrux (which sehe knew very well was a Horcrux) to conjure a Patronus. She sent DEmentors to shut up Harry by using it against a Muggle. And alot of pure-blood elitists aredark magicians. She is certainly a sadistic toad. Remember, McGonagall knew that what Umbridge was practising was against the law. Remember, to question Umbridge was to question the Ministry and to extention the Minister himself. Umbridge used that fact to demolish McGonagall's claim! So don't go talking to me about her being just a sadistic toad because there was a high possibility she was a Death Eater in fact some readers believe that she is one!!! By the wya SOMEONE CREATE THE FRICKING CONVICT INFOBOX!!!!!

I don't want to create an Askaban infobox cause I wouldn't like Hagrid or Dumbledore or Sirius to have one. I suppose the nargles are behind it. 21:59, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Exactly whose side are you on? You started defending the opposing argument by giving "evidence" of Umbridge's loyalty to the Death Eaters and then concluded by promoting the 'convict' box. By the way, Umbridge had no clue that the locket she had come to possess was a Horcrux, she just though it looked aesthetically pleasing. Why would a Horcrux allow someone to conjure a Patronus? She conjured it because of her high-powered situation - she loved being the one to have such control of the fate of her victims. She was most definitely NOT a Death Eater, just a supporter of their ideals. Whereas other wizards were forced to work at the Ministry during Voldemort's reign, Umbridge thorougly enjoyed abusing her power and enforcing the new very dictatorial regime. Yes she was a sadistic toad but leave it as that. She did not practice the Dark Arts and by no means was her sending Dementors to attack Harry in 1995 the deed of a Dark Witch. To say that is to say that the Ministry itself, which made frequent use of Dementors, was Dark prior to Harry's, Ron's and Hermione's revolutionary alterations during their adult lives.--Yin&amp;Yang 22:44, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Absolute bollocks. To send a Dementor to somebody was Dark Arts. The Blood quill was a dark artifac. Dark Magic is magic that causes umbrage and in some cases is illicit. However, spells like Sectumsempra was dark magic and the Ministry of Magic had no clue about Snape's intruiging spealls. Rowling has not revealed Umbridge's true loyalties though it is seen likely that she was like Fenrir. Umbridge was capable of Unforgivable Curses meaning that she was slightly talented in dark arts. In fact I agree that Rowling has confirmed that Umbridge was rather dark. Interestingly, I agree that convict infobox suits her even though it is liable to call her a dark witch in the meantime.

Huh, you're full of more self-contradictions than that other user. First you say that Umbridge has not been revealed to be a Dark Witch by Rowling, and then you claim that "Rowling confirmed that Umbridge was rather Dark". You then state that Umbridge is a Dark Witch yet you agree to the 'for' argument of labelling her as a convict. Dementors are Dark creatures, not Dark Magic - learn the terms. The Blood-Quill, while classified as a Dark Artefact, means nothing in determining the witch's allegiance. She was a sadist, that is all. Also, what was that babble about Snape using Sectumsempra? Are you trying to compare Umbridge to Snape? If you are, then you're fighting a losing battle there, my friend. Snape was indeed a minor form of a Dark Wizard in his youth and later Death Eater years, but he completely abandoned those studies after joining Dumbledore. Umbridge never, as far as we know, invented Dark spells nor practiced Dark Magic of the likes that real Dark Wizards are known for. Aside from all this, (now speaking to the other users involved at large) at least most of us seem to agree on the 'convict' change so as I said before, feel free to make the change.--Yin&amp;Yang 15:28, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Look here. I said that 'summoning Dementors' is Magic you doofus. YOU learn the terms. By the way I said that the Ministry were UNAWARE of Sectumsempra. The Ministry knew nothing about the Blood Quill because it is a dark artifact (not a dark artefact) Rowling has confirmed that Umbridge is a dark witch. The debate is whether she is a Death Eater that is what Rowling has not confirmed. I have not contradicted any thing. What I believe is that Umbridge should not have a dark witch infobox permanently because she should be a convict. Also: The definition of dark magic: Magic that is illicit, umbrage, pain, death, also summoning dark creatures.

Alright, I am not going to descend to your level by deliberately trying to insult other users with childish names, so here is my message to you. Firstly, sign your posts before saving them. Secondly, I know the definition of Dark Magic, and Dementors do not require any form of it to be summoned or sent elsewhere; presumably, they understand simple English and can be ordered by word of mouth so you are very wrong about Umbridge’s methods of sending Dementors to Little Whinging – if not the terms, then learn the specifics of Magical Creatures. Thirdly, I understood what you said before about the Ministry being unaware of Snape’s invention of Sectumsempra as well as Umbridge’s use of a Blood-Quill, but so what? How is that relevant here? You didn’t elaborate, instead you just threw sentences out there as if their meanings were obvious. Fourthly, I would like to know what you’re sourcing for that piece of “information” stating that Rowling confirmed Umbridge to be a Dark Witch – THAT is “absolute bollocks”. Finally, please don’t try and correct my spelling, because that “artefact” line was a typo. What’s your excuse for “artifac”, and “intruiging spealls”? Oh, and you did contradict yourself earlier; I gave valid examples of how you did so in my last post, maybe you should re-read it. Umbridge is not, I repeat, NOT a Dark Witch, just a sadist.--Yin&amp;Yang 23:39, November 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * Neither Rowling nor the movies/games have revealed how one summons/sends a Dementor, but I would doubt it includes any dark magic because if it did, some Ministry workers would be dark wizards. It is most likely that, as Yin&Yang has put it "they understand simple English". I would also advise everyone to state their references when making a claim and would warn that deliberately insulting users is an offense to the "no personal attacks" policy and continuing to do so will result in a block. Oh, by the way, do remember to sign your edits with four tildes ( ~ ) -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 00:01, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Firstly I am not puerile but I am a child so I have the legal right to be childish. Secondly, our Dark Magic page says summoning Dementors is dark magic thirdly learn to spell. You probably have just watched the films because by your degree of spelling you're English is POOR!

Are you the same user as the one Seth Cooper and I just proved WRONG beyond all boundaries? If you are, you are really trying my patience. Umbridge is not Dark and neither is the ability to summon a Dementor, which, I might add doesn't even require magic, regardless of what some very misguided article might say! As a response to your assumption, I have not watched any of the Harry Potter films recently (not that that has anything to do with our discussion) and I don't know whose posts you're reading but I don't think it's fair to call my English skills "poor" when you seem to have trouble stringing viable sentences together yourself. I am not mispelling anything, but thankyou for trying to insult me again - remember, that 'no Personal Attacks' policy didn't change in the last ten hours or so. An official Admin warning might just be coming your way if you don't learn to write in a civil manner.--Yin&amp;Yang 14:26, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Okay, this discussion is pretty much over so can someone please change the infobox? I would, but I'm not sure how.--Yin&amp;Yang 04:26, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Yes, Yin&Yang. It is pretty long now. I think we should just create the infobox. <font face="Courier"> Tur bo  Golf  06:59, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

An annon IP has posted this on my talk page regarding Umibridge´s status as a dark witch:

1) Blood Quill is like Cruciatus Curse. It inflicts dolor, pain, torture. It is a dark artifact that Umbridge used. 2) Umbridge was in the community of dark wizards. That is a sign. 3) The Ministry did not send Dementors. If anyone was able to conjure Dementors it was Lord Voldemort and everything that he did was Dark Magic. He became a creature of the Dark Arts. If Umbridge could do this ergo she is practising dark magic. 4) Etymology: Umbrage and Dolor. Umbridges character is not offense and torture! It is what she causes and alot of what she causes is through her magic.

However, noble editor, do read some of the Google debates because she is a pivotal character when it comes to debate because so much is concealed about her and it frustates fans like ourselves!

--Rodolphus 12:27, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

Well apparently this "fan" doesn't know his facts, my "noble" Rodolphus. Tell him that as Sirius Black says, "the world isn't split into good people and Death Eaters". He might not be saying that Umbridge was a Death Eater, but in this case, 'Death Eater' and 'Dark Wizard' are interchangable terms. Also remind him that Fenrir Greyback, while probably a minor or rudimentary Dark Wizard, was never part of Voldemort's Death Eater organisation even though he worked so close to them. So that is an example of how the boundaries of categories of loyalties can be blurred. Umbridge is not, no matter what credible sources such as internet chatrooms may say, a Dark Witch. Finally, Dementors do NOT require magic to follow orders. They are as much sentient as any wizard and therefore, can be ordered by word of mouth on what to do. Umbridge, being a Ministry Official at the time, had the authority to order Dementors about and so abused her power and tried to silence an innocent boy with a punishment worse than death. If this user persists to disagree, I suggest you ignore him because some fans get ahead of themselves when it comes to the quality of knowledge they presume to possess, and therefore become annoyingly persistant even though they have no logical basis for their argument. It was good of you to bring the topic to light.--Yin&amp;Yang 13:03, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

I´ve told him to read this talk page instead. --Rodolphus 13:14, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

All the better!--Yin&amp;Yang 13:21, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

Umbrige's Hair
In the current info box under Umbridge's picture, there is a brief description of the latter's hair color as being 'iron grey' yet formerly 'mouse-brown'. As far as we know, Umbridge's hair has always been and remains to be mouse-brown, unless there is some canonical piece of information I have missed which openly states that Umbridge's hair became grey later in life (perhaps during her years in Azkaban). If not, then that is speculation and therefore her hair color should be described as 'mouse-brown' only. Yes, we can assume that Umbridge's hair whitened with age but then we have to assume the same for each and every surviving character of the books.--Yin&amp;Yang 07:29, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Her hair is described as iorn grey in Half-Blood Prince, when she attends Dumbledore's funeral. Presumably due to the stress caused by her adventure with the centuars. Jayden Matthews 08:33, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Actually Jayden, that isn't right. Here is a direct quote from that very scene:

...Dolores Umbridge, an unconvincing expression of grief upon her toadlike face, a black velvet bow set atop her iron-coloured curls...

The keyword is, of course, "iron-coloured" not "iron-grey coloured". The colour of iron, or at least iron ore and iron rust, is indeed brown so I'm going to undo your last edit, okay?--Yin&amp;Yang 09:33, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Dolores River in Colorado
I can understand the trivia interest in that there is a Dolores River in the USA but I do not see any reason whatsoever why this should be mentioned in the main article: I seriously doubt that it had any influence whatsoever in the choice of her name by either JK or her fictional parents.Sings-With-Spirits 01:08, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

Unnidentified people at the great hall
who are these people? could be a dolores umbridge friends?Pol 871 18:41, May 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * Doubt that. Every time I saw one of those persons standing during the Feasts I guessed they were the rest of the caretaking staff (just like Filch in this picture). -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 21:30, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

Fred and George
I can, without looking at Fred and George's own page(s), tell that this has been copied. It basically repeats all the information that has already been said. -BlueDalek 14:28, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Dark Witch?
Given that she practiced the Dark Arts, supported the Voldemort controlled Ministry, and was imprisoned for Crimes against Muggle-borns, shouldn't she be considered a Dark Witch? --<font face="Times" size="4" color="Black" >JKoch (<font face="Monotype Corsiva" size="1" color="Red">Owl Me! ) 03:04, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe. She might not have known that it was controlled by Voldemort-after all, he never showed up there, did he? But she did practice the Dark Arts, and was imprisoned, so that might make her a Dark Witch...

But wouldn't that make Snape a Dark Wizard, if he practiced the Dark Arts too, despite being on the side of good? RolandaSmithson 15:33, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

Personally, I don't think being considered a "dark" wizard always means that person has to be evil. A person who practices the dark arts would be a dark wizard regardless of their intentions. Sirius Black said that everyone has "good" and "evil" in them, that not everyone is separated by good and by death eaters. Being that he used the term death eaters and not dark wizards, maybe because not all dark wizards are necessarily bad. Just a thought. --BachLynn23 15:40, September 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't think that working under Thicknesse at the Ministry and being imprisoned for crimes against Muggle-borns is sufficient evidence to claim Umbridge was a dark witch. Sure, she was a biased, cruel, twisted witch; but practicer of the Dark Arts? When do we see her actively practicing dark magic anyways? -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 16:28, September 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * She was prepared to use crucio on Harry, if Hermione hadn't stepped in she probably would have, and she sent the dementors to little whinging. --BachLynn23 18:26, September 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Dementors are sentient creatures, they understand simple English. As for attempting to use Crucio on Harry, I do not think that counts as actively practising the Dark Arts; Harry Potter and McGonagall (for instance) use the Unforgivable Curses more times during the series than Umbridge, and I don't recall they were ever deemed dark wizards. -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 18:39, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

Being evil does not automatically make a witch or wizard a "Dark Wizard"; that requires delving into the "dark arts" for philosophical reasons, such as Riddle's seeking immortality and the Death Eater's desire for pure power. Umbridge was a stone-cold evil witch, but she was neither a dark wizard nor a Death-Eater. Sings-With-Spirits 02:06, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Dolores was most definitely a dark witch, for example:


 * She had an "affinity" (in JK's words) for the Locket, a Horcrux
 * She seemed very sure of her ability to cast Unforgivables (and would you really put it past her?) and she's portrayed as very adept at Dark magic in the games, at least.
 * She collected and used Dark objects of her own volition, as seen with the Blood Quill and - once again - the locket.
 * She was evil, so its rather likely that she would have forayed quite deeply into the Dark side (since most evil/reformed people in HP have).
 * She seemed to have a good rapport with Dark creatures like Dementors

All in all, I think its safe to say that she was a Dark WitchGreen Zubat 05:10, July 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * There's actually no evidence to claim she was a dark witch. She was a sadistic, prejudiced, evil, despicable woman, but not so much a dark witch.
 * She had this affinity for the Locket because, in Rowling's words, she was a "very nasty piece of work". She was at the time prosecuting innocent people, and due to her nastyness and her negative personality, the Horcrux would "help" her rather than hinder her.
 * A person who is capable of conjuring Dark magic is not necessarily a Dark wizard; c.f. Harry Potter, Minerva McGonagall, Molly Weasley, Ginny Weasley etc.
 * The Blood Quill is never referred to as a "Dark object". Granted, a medieval, brutal, and cruel means of punishment, but never referred to as "Dark". For the Locket, see explanation above.
 * Her personality traits are no evidence to claim she delved into the study and active practice of the Dark arts
 * Dementors were, at the time, under the employ of the Ministry of Magic. She had all legitimacy to be associated with Dementors. Besides, Dementors understand simple English, so it is not necessarily Dark magic to rapport with them (as a large number of Ministry/Azkaban wizards had to do).
 * -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 15:35, August 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think that she does count, as the "Dark Wizard" page mentions "Attracting... dark creatures to attack their enemies". Also, Harry did not show particular true aptitude for the Dark Arts unless in great rage (like when someone insulted his head of house). Also, I think that as she is morally dark and she is a witch she counts as a dark witch. - Groxhugger (talk) 22:15, January 16, 2014 (UTC) Lord Voldemort

HELP!
The Umbridge article needs quite a bit of rewriting, once you get past Personality and Traits (which I just finished rewriting). It's not so much that it is incorrect, just the way it's written is sloppy and sounds wrong when you compare it to other articles, like Dumbledore. So, could somebody help me rewrite a little? Thanks very much. RolandaSmithson 15:36, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

life long quidditch ban
I just realised her article has nothing about banning Fred, George and Harry from playing Quidditch after their fight with Malfoy....... I'm trying to figure where to fit it in, right now I'm not sure where to put it so it still flows right. --<font face="Ariel" size="4" color="Purple" >BachLynn (<font face="Monotype Corsiva" size="2" color="Purple">Accio! ) 15:49, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

House
Is it possible for us to discern which house she was in from the lego video game, as was done with Quirell. Jayden Matthews 16:59, October 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * The Lego video game is for Philosopher's Stone to Goblet of Fire, so Umbridge doesn't make an appearance. -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 18:48, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

seeing her face gets me soo mad!!! QueenBeee 00:32, November 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * (Smacks head on desk) Sorry, I should have realised. What about Sinistra, Vector and Binns? Jayden Matthews 13:30, November 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * For what I can remember (I can check this out later) they cannot enter neither one. -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 17:50, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

she is insane151.196.248.248 19:14, April 6, 2011 (UTC)

@QueenBeee exactly!! I hate her as bad as justin bieber but justin bieber is a little worse. she is mad. Speedysnitch 18:37, June 6, 2011 (UTC)

Umbridge should've been made a Prefect. She acts so Proper. Lol.

Lego Harry Potter 5-7 has been released now. Does anyone know if Dolores (or any other adult character) can enter a common room?--Rodolphus 16:18, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Locket and patronus
I removed the following line from the magic and abilities section:


 * "...in fact, due to her malice and the locket Horcrux being compatible with one other, her Patronus was actually strengthened by Lord Voldemort's fragmented soul."

There is no reference given for this and seems to be conjecture on the part of the author. Sings-With-Spirits 21:20, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

There's references all over the article which verify that her magical ability in general was strengthened by the Horcrux, which includes her ability to cast charms (such as the Patronus Charm). Harry even notes in the book that while she has the Locket on her Patronus feel particularly strong. Said Patronus was also holding back roughly a hundred dementors from swooping down and sucking the soul out of that poor woman. This all affirms that exact statement, re-adding - Green Zubat 00:43, August 14, 2011 (UTC).

Here is the relevant reference: