Talk:Dolores Umbridge

dI think i am going to merge the Wikipedia Version with the one that exists here and create sort of a hybrid article. Rev.Potter 06:19, 15 Sep 2005 (UTC)

I have abandoned my attempt and if anyone wants to do this for me the Wikipedia Article is located at Dolores Umbridge/WikipediaVersion Rev.Potter 06:26, 15 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Actually, according to wikia's policy, you shouldn't put text from a wikipedia article in a wikia article.

Slytherin
The infobox is slytherin, what's the source Umbridge is slytherin????&mdash; Darthtyler Talk 01:42, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

There isnt one but it seemed apropriate given the evedince supporting the theroy.KickAssJedi 20:29, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Ive created a unique infobox to counter the problem.KickAssJedi 21:33, 1 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't see how the infobox should be Slytherin. There is no proof that she was in fact a Slytherin - therefore we should use the character infobox, which has been customized for this particular character. -- DarkJedi613 (Talk) 00:47, 26 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed.--\\Captain KickAssJedi// 14:41, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Date of Birth
Anyone have any idea as to when Umbridge was born?

Early 50s. She left Hogwarts before 1971 because of her lack of knowledge of the Maraunders.

Wikification
this article needs to have its refrences to the real world removed in order to configure to wiki policy. 08:06, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Name Origin
As the Spanish 'dolores' most certainly comes from the Latin 'dolor' (of the same meaning), and there are certainly very many other Latin-related words in the books, wouldn't it make more sense to say that her name comes from the Latin? Also, 'umbra' is (in some of its many meanings) darkness, shadow or shade. 124.170.120.53 11:08, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Headmistress
I changed the section "Headmistress" to High Inquisitor because she became High Inquisitor before Headmistress - Voltage624 22:57, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Death Eater
So is this confirmed by JK recently? She does a lot of after-book additions. Mafalda Hopkirk 02:27, 26 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think so. I think it's speculation.  I'll have a check around, but I'll remove it for now. -  Cavalier One ( Wizarding Wireless Network ) 11:16, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, she didn't join Voldemort until he took over the Ministry. Even if she might have not been a Death Eater, she was still a traitor. 68.228.149.192 20:47, 26 January 2008 (UTC)


 * though bear in mind she was also wearing the horcrux locket, so whether or not she joined him, she may have been becoming him Sandpiper 21:14, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Well...no. It makes people more prone to their darker side...not controlled by VoldyUser:Matoro183 21:17, 26 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I believe she just jumped on the bandwagon and attached herself to where the power was. Remember she was a strong supporter of Fudge when he was Minister.  She saw what way the wind was blowing and fell into line. -  Cavalier One ( Wizarding Wireless Network ) 12:31, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

In Azkaban?
where does this information come from? can you add a source or citation? thanks! Bastet13 03:58, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know who posted it, but JKR said this of Umbridge in an interview: "She was arrested, interrogated and imprisoned for crimes against Muggleborns." Oread 04:10, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Middle name
From Rowling´s homepage, it is known that her first name once was Elvira. The page states that this is her middle name. Shouldn´t it be deleted?--Rodolphus 11:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it should. Her middle name is Jane (OP28)--Thorning 15:46, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Disease
Could we add trivia about "Umbridge-itis"? I know it's pointless and silly, but that's why it should go in trivia.--68.217.137.36 16:24, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * What is "Umbridge-itis" I've never heard of it. -- DarkJedi613 (Talk) 20:37, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

"Shrieking with rage and frustration she attempted to trace the mysteries symptoms to their source, but the students told her stubbornly they were suffering 'Umbridge-itis.'"

- Students using Skiving snackboxes -- 22:05, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think it needs to be included; it's not a real disease. "-itis" is a medical suffix that means "inflammation of"; they students are simply telling Umbridge that her dictatorship irritates them.  --Cubs Fan2007 22:47, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

you-tube?
Is it alright to have you tube clips in articles? ~I l u v g r a c i e 1 2 9 (Talk) 01:52, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

House
I know Rowling never states which House Umbridge came from, but I want to see what fans think. I personally think see came from Slytherin. Please say which House you think Umbridge came from below.--Bella Goth 16:33, 25 July 2009 (UTC)Bella Goth


 * The Wizengamot archive - Forum:Umbridge's House - Nick O&#39;Demus 19:29, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Weak patronus?
Umbridge's infobox says that she has a weak patronus. Is there a source for this? All I remember from Deathly Hallows is that Harry noted the cat was particularly strong when she was interrogating Muggle-borns, as she was "in her prime."

Weak patronus?
Umbridge's infobox says that she has a weak patronus. Is there a source for this? All I remember from Deathly Hallows is that Harry noted the cat was particularly strong when she was interrogating Muggle-borns, as she was "in her prime." --Parodist 15:21, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Umbridge on Tight Rope
It says that the Umbridge doll on the tight rope is saying "I will have order." But I think it actually says, "I will have water." This may seem odd, but the doll is balancing two buckets of water on it's shoulder. My guess is that it is a play-on-words, as it does sound a lot like "I will have order" in her British accent.

Infobox
As with Lucius Malfoy it seems that Umbridge's current infobox is no longer appropriate given the fact that she was fired from the Ministry and thrown in Azkaban after Voldemort's death. Does anyone have any thoughts on what we should change it to? Jayden Matthews 21:57, October 26, 2009 (UTC)


 * Of course, I agree with you. Maybe we should alter it to "Wizard" infobox, or the unique pink infobox we had before? --  Seth Cooper  owl post! 22:13, October 26, 2009 (UTC)


 * Or somebody could make an "Azkaban convict" infobox. It could also apply to Morfin and Marvolo Gaunt, and Barty Crouch Jr.'s mother. - <font face="Monotype Corsiva" size="4" color="FF8000">Nick O'Demus 09:55, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

The only problem with that plan is it would render the DE infobox largley redundent, as all those who were captured after the battle of Hogwarts would also use it. Jayden Matthews 09:57, October 27, 2009 (UTC)


 * Not necessarily (at least not yet). It hasn't been confirmed who among the Death Eaters went to Azkaban after the war, and who escaped or was killed. Their last confirmed affiliation would still be Death Eater. Of course, that may change if/when Rowling publishes her HP encyclopdia. - <font face="Monotype Corsiva" size="4" color="FF8000">Nick O'Demus 10:04, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

I would say that Umbridge was a dark witch. The Blood Quill is a use of dark magic and there is somw dispute whether she wanted to use the Killing Curse on Harry and Hermoine but it is not confirmed. However, an Azkaban infobox is an extremely good idea and I would back it up!

I've changed the infobox to individual until an official decision is reached. Sporadic use of dark magic doesn't make her a dark witch anymore thn it does Harry or Mcgonagall. Jayden Matthews 13:38, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

I have to agree with Jayden. Calling Umbridge a Dark Witch is giving her far too much credit anyway. I think it safe to say that she is a very sadistic, cruel and prejudice witch, though.--Yin&amp;Yang 13:46, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

I would really like an Azkaban Convict infobox. <font face="Courier"> Tur bo  Golf  17:11, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Good point Nick! And yes Ying&Yang, you're right. Nasty as she was, she wasn't dark. She opposed the dark arts, and anything that violated the laws of her precious Fudge. I support the new infobox. Although I'd suggest calling it just "criminal individual infobox", so it can apply to a wider variety of charcters, including Grindlewald and Mundungus. Jayden Matthews 19:03, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

I tend to a gree with the creation of a convict infobox, but I would call it convict, not criminal. All dark wizards are criminal. Thus, it would make both the dark Wizard and the Death Eater one unnecessary.--Rodolphus 19:10, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Sound's good. So, are we in agreement on the "convict individual infobox"? Or does anyone else have any thoughts on Umbridge's infobox? Jayden Matthews 11:02, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

"Convict individual" has my vote. I think it sums up Umbridge in a nut-shell perfectly.--Yin&amp;Yang 11:12, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

To be fair, she was involved with dark wizards and used their magic unlike Harry and McGonagall who use it for good. But Azkaban convict gets my vote!

I agree!! -- <font color="Green">GrouchMan (<font color="Green" size="1">Send an owl then scram!! ) 22:03, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

Technically she never used any dark magic. She attempted, and failed to use the cruciatus curse on Harry. Harry, on the other hand used sectumsempra, the cruciates curse and the imperious curse on several occasions. Do we need to vote on the creation of a new infobox? Jayden Matthews 08:34, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

Technically. Jayden was a dark witch. I don't wanna cause any umbrage, bruv, but the blood quill was dark arts. She also was affiliated with Dark wizards. She used magic to torture and cause trouble. A dark wizard/witch is a witch/wizard who uses magic for bad reasons. Harry, McGonagall, Snape used magic for good (except for Snape he used to use magic for experiment and for his own good). Umbridge fits the DW! However, I do think you're right. We should vote for a Convict Individual

No, a dark witch/wizard is someone who actively studies and practices that dak arts on a regular basis, which Umbridge never did. There is no source that says the blood quill is dark magic. Seeing as how they used to chain up and flog Hogwarts students, and McGonagall comments on Umbridge's "medievil" methods, it seems likely that the blood quill was used to discipline students in the past and is therfore unlikely to be dark magic. Anyway, how do we get this vote underway? Jayden Matthews 16:37, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

No, a dark witch/wizard is some one who practises dark magic normally for experiment, power, or other bad reasons. YOU CAN'T DENY!! The Order used dark magic to kill enemies. JK Rowling said Blood quill is dark magic. By the way, with infoboxes I have started a forum that way people could vote. There is also another villian who needs an infobox, Rita Skeeter.

Like I said before, saying that Umbridge is a Dark Witch is giving her too much credit. She may have dabbled in the use of certain Dark spells and objects (e.g. the Blood Quill), but she never fully practised the Dark Arts to the extent of Voldemort or even Grindelwald. Although she assisted the Death Eaters during their reign over the Ministry, she was never inducted as one of them. Remember, her loyalties were more towards authority and authoritative figures than the Dark Order. This is why she opted to follow the ways of both Fudge and subsequently, the Death Eaters. All in all, Umbridge is nothing but a ... well, what Molly Weasley called Bellatrix Lestrange before their duel.--Yin&amp;Yang 03:00, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Jayden. Umbridge is not known to have studied the Dark Arts. And Good and Evil is always a thing of Point of View. In Voldemort´s and Umbridge´s eyes, they used the Dark Arts for good reasons too. (although it weren´t, in my opinion.) --Rodolphus 08:10, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Please provide a quote for Rowling saying that the blood quill is a dark artifact. Umbridge was a facist who sucked up to the establishmet regardless of who was in charge of it, because she loved being in a position of authority. However she never used any dark magic in the books. Saying she was a dark witch because she worked for the Ministry when it was under Death Eater control is highly illogical. By your reasoning Reg Cattermole was a dark wizard. Jayden Matthews 08:37, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

No, I think Yin&Yang is right. However, she is a dark witch. Blood Quill is a dark artifact. She would have been more into politics but she did use alot of dark magic to get what she want. Maybe to the extent of most dark wizards but to the extent that makes her evil. By the way Rodophus, she was evil. Don't come up with lunacy saying it is opinions because you are indicating amorality which according to my opinion is like Voldemort- that is evil!

Please tell me where abouts in the books or films she uses alot of dark magic. Jayden Matthews 14:40, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

It´s your opinion, not mine. I don´t want to insult anyone, but Umbridge´s attempted Unforgivable Curses never worked.

No, no, I still think Convict would be the only fitting infobox: Although, if I think about it more, Umbridge may be a Dark Witch.

(And I´m not amoral.) --Rodolphus 15:17, November 1, 2009 (UTC)


 * When did she "use alot of dark magic to get what she wanted"? Also, a Dark wizard is one who actively studies the Dark Arts and/or practices them. Umbridge was never shown to have done such things (despite she intended to do so, once). As for the Blood Quill, I have to say that it most likely isn't a Dark arifact (if Rowling has said it, please do kindly provide a source) seen as she openly used it on students inside a school. It was, as McGonagall puts it, a mere "medieval" and cruel means of punishment. -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 16:44, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

No offense to those opposing the change of the infobox message to "convict", but majority does rule. I think that most of us agree that Umbridge is not a Dark Witch but more of a sadistic "toad". So Jayden, or whomever it was who had the idea of changing the infobox, feel free to do it.--Yin&amp;Yang 11:48, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

It is 12th Doctor who had the idea actually. Jayden part of the fun of reading is to make unrevealed bits up for your self. The chances that Blood Quill is not a dark artifact is 1 in 157. The Ministry was not aware of all sources of dark arts and Umbridge was aware of that. She used the Horcrux (which sehe knew very well was a Horcrux) to conjure a Patronus. She sent DEmentors to shut up Harry by using it against a Muggle. And alot of pure-blood elitists aredark magicians. She is certainly a sadistic toad. Remember, McGonagall knew that what Umbridge was practising was against the law. Remember, to question Umbridge was to question the Ministry and to extention the Minister himself. Umbridge used that fact to demolish McGonagall's claim! So don't go talking to me about her being just a sadistic toad because there was a high possibility she was a Death Eater in fact some readers believe that she is one!!!

By the wya SOMEONE CREATE THE FRICKING CONVICT INFOBOX!!!!!

Exactly whose side are you on? You started defending the opposing argument by giving "evidence" of Umbridge's loyalty to the Death Eaters and then concluded by promoting the 'convict' box. By the way, Umbridge had no clue that the locket she had come to possess was a Horcrux, she just though it looked aesthetically pleasing. Why would a Horcrux allow someone to conjure a Patronus? She conjured it because of her high-powered situation - she loved being the one to have such control of the fate of her victims. She was most definitely NOT a Death Eater, just a supporter of their ideals. Whereas other wizards were forced to work at the Ministry during Voldemort's reign, Umbridge thorougly enjoyed abusing her power and enforcing the new very dictatorial regime. Yes she was a sadistic toad but leave it as that. She did not practice the Dark Arts and by no means was her sending Dementors to attack Harry in 1995 the deed of a Dark Witch. To say that is to say that the Ministry itself, which made frequent use of Dementors, was Dark prior to Harry's, Ron's and Hermione's revolutionary alterations during their adult lives.--Yin&amp;Yang 22:44, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Absolute bollocks. To send a Dementor to somebody was Dark Arts. The Blood quill was a dark artifac. Dark Magic is magic that causes umbrage and in some cases is illicit. However, spells like Sectumsempra was dark magic and the Ministry of Magic had no clue about Snape's intruiging spealls. Rowling has not revealed Umbridge's true loyalties though it is seen likely that she was like Fenrir. Umbridge was capable of Unforgivable Curses meaning that she was slightly talented in dark arts. In fact I agree that Rowling has confirmed that Umbridge was rather dark. Interestingly, I agree that convict infobox suits her even though it is liable to call her a dark witch in the meantime.

Huh, you're full of more self-contradictions than that other user. First you say that Umbridge has not been revealed to be a Dark Witch by Rowling, and then you claim that "Rowling confirmed that Umbridge was rather Dark". You then state that Umbridge is a Dark Witch yet you agree to the 'for' argument of labelling her as a convict. Dementors are Dark creatures, not Dark Magic - learn the terms. The Blood-Quill, while classified as a Dark Artefact, means nothing in determining the witch's allegiance. She was a sadist, that is all. Also, what was that babble about Snape using Sectumsempra? Are you trying to compare Umbridge to Snape? If you are, then you're fighting a losing battle there, my friend. Snape was indeed a minor form of a Dark Wizard in his youth and later Death Eater years, but he completely abandoned those studies after joining Dumbledore. Umbridge never, as far as we know, invented Dark spells nor practiced Dark Magic of the likes that real Dark Wizards are known for. Aside from all this, (now speaking to the other users involved at large) at least most of us seem to agree on the 'convict' change so as I said before, feel free to make the change.--Yin&amp;Yang 15:28, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Look here. I said that 'summoning Dementors' is Magic you doofus. YOU learn the terms. By the way I said that the Ministry were UNAWARE of Sectumsempra. The Ministry knew nothing about the Blood Quill because it is a dark artifact (not a dark artefact) Rowling has confirmed that Umbridge is a dark witch. The debate is whether she is a Death Eater that is what Rowling has not confirmed. I have not contradicted any thing. What I believe is that Umbridge should not have a dark witch infobox permanently because she should be a convict.

Also:

The definition of dark magic

Magic that is illicit, umbrage, pain, death, also summoning dark creatures.

Alright, I am not going to descend to your level by deliberately trying to insult other users with childish names, so here is my message to you. Firstly, sign your posts before saving them. Secondly, I know the definition of Dark Magic, and Dementors do not require any form of it to be summoned or sent elsewhere; presumably, they understand simple English and can be ordered by word of mouth so you are very wrong about Umbridge’s methods of sending Dementors to Little Whinging – if not the terms, then learn the specifics of Magical Creatures. Thirdly, I understood what you said before about the Ministry being unaware of Snape’s invention of Sectumsempra as well as Umbridge’s use of a Blood-Quill, but so what? How is that relevant here? You didn’t elaborate, instead you just threw sentences out there as if their meanings were obvious. Fourthly, I would like to know what you’re sourcing for that piece of “information” stating that Rowling confirmed Umbridge to be a Dark Witch – THAT is “absolute bollocks”. Finally, please don’t try and correct my spelling, because that “artefact” line was a typo. What’s your excuse for “artifac”, and “intruiging spealls”? Oh, and you did contradict yourself earlier; I gave valid examples of how you did so in my last post, maybe you should re-read it. Umbridge is not, I repeat, NOT a Dark Witch, just a sadist.--Yin&amp;Yang 23:39, November 3, 2009 (UTC)