Talk:Durmstrang Institute

Why would the Triwizard Tournament be in 1994?

Somebody please fix this


 * That information is correct. The Triwizard Tournament took place during the 1994-1995 school year. Oread 15:16, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Pure-bloods Only?
I think we need to clarify something - does Durmstrang only admit pure-bloods, or does it simply not admit Muggle-borns? In other words, does it admit Half-blood students? I don't have the Goblet of Fire text with me, but the Lexicon only says "it does not admit Muggle-born students" and references Chapter 11. O r e a d (talk) 03:46, 1 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I quickly skimmed through GoF11 and the bit about Durmstrang's admission policy seems to be drawn from this quote by Draco:
 * "Father actually considered sending me to Durmstrang rather than Hogwarts, you know. He knows the Headmaster, you see. Well, you know his opinion of Dumbledore — the man's such a Mudblood-lover — and Durmstrang doesn't admit that sort of riff-raff. But Mother didn't like the idea of me going to school so far away, Father says Durmstrang takes a far more sensible line than Hogwarts about the Dark Arts. Durmstrang students actually learn them, not just the 'defence rubbish' we do..."
 * What Draco means by "riff-raff" is unclear. It could apply to Muggle-borns, blood traitors, or both. But Draco calls Dumbledore a "Mudblood-lover," and we do know that, under Dumbledore, Hogwarts had an open-door admission policy when it came to Muggle-borns. This leads me to conclude that Draco meant that Durmstrang does not admit Muggle-borns. ★ S t a r s t u f f <font face="Times" color="darkgreen">(Owl me!) 05:31, 1 April 2009 (UTC)´


 * If we said that Durmstrang only admit pure-bloods. It means that Half-breeds including Half-giants like Hagrid or Half-Veelas and also Squibs are not allowed to that school. -- ÈnŔîčö Hallows.svg(<font face="Times" color="brown">Send me an Owl ) 07:25, 1 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Exactly. According to the rules of Wikipedia, concluding that Durmstrang only admits pure-bloods based on Draco's quote where he merely states

I think it is possible that it admits Half-bloods too. We should change the Durmstrang, Viktor Krum, Grindelwald and Krum family articles to say that.--Rodolphus 09:44, 1 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree; it's only clear that Durmstrang does not admit Muggle-borns, which means the students could be pure-bloods or half-bloods. <font face="Monotype Corsiva" size="4" color=#0000A0>O <font face="Monotype Corsiva" size="4" color=#0000FF>r <font face="Monotype Corsiva" size="4" color=#0000A0>e <font face="Monotype Corsiva" size="4" color=#0000FF>a <font face="Monotype Corsiva" size="4" color=#0000A0>d <font face="Times" color=#800080>(talk) 01:32, 2 April 2009 (UTC)


 * We really should. I'm familiar with this Wiki's guidelines, but to conclude that Durmstrang only admits pure-bloods based purely on Draco's quote where he states that Durmstrang does not admit "Mudbloods" would constitute "original research". All articles on the subject should only state that Durmstrang does not admit Muggle-borns. I very much doubt that Durmstrang only admits Pure-bloods seeing as how Hogwarts would be overrun with plenty of Scandinavian, Slavic and Northern and Eastern-European students (rejected by Durmstrang, which is believed to be located in a Slavic country) if that were the case. 217.210.59.110 03:15, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The above entry was written by me, BTW. I forgot to login. Just for future reference should this debate drag on. FallenAngelII 03:16, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Etymology
The suggestion for the etymology of the Durmstrang Institute is good, but i also wish to offer this (and perhaps include it, if it is deemed relevant).

Durchmusterung when pronounced correctly sounds very close to Durmstrang. Durch - Dur. Musterung - Mstrang. With the appropriate german accent i'm sure you can see what i mean.

Durchmusterung is the name of a star catalogue, which Rowling is no doubt familiar with given the amount of characters named after stars, constellations etc.

Thoughts?

Wil 7 02:48, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

I believe it's a reference to the German movement of Sturm und Drang.

146.95.16.213 14:53, October 25, 2010 (UTC) Ava 10:52, 25 October 2010


 * That is already mentioned in the article. -Smonocco 15:54, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

Location
We should not specify where Durmstrang is located in the main article. It was previously stated to have been located in Northern Scandinavia. The only source for this is that one interview where Jo says she "would think" (or whatever) its location to be in Scandinavia... which is ludicrous. Because if so, Jo truly got it wrong this time. While both Norwegian and Swedish are Germanic languages and "Durmstrang" is likely a play of words on the German term "Durm ung Strang", Norwegian and Swedish have moved so far away from their Germanic roots that "Durmstrang" means absolutely nothing in either language. Not only that, you would not pronounce "Durmstrang" the way it is pronounced in either language. Furthermore, the coat of arms of Durmstrang features Cyrillic characters. Norwegian and Swedish utilize Roman alphabets. So Durmstrang is either Russian, in a former Soviet state or German (or possible Austrian or Beneluxian). Unless you're suggesting that the school be located in a Scandinavian country, yet its name and coat of arms are in languages not spoken in any Scandinavian country (as an official language). I have therefore edited the page to read that Durmstrang is located in Northern Europe and I suggest we leave it that way. FallenAngelII 16:21, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree with you that JKR hasn't really thought out Durmstrang's location very well. However, she did state at a book reading that she imagined Durmstrang being in northern Sweden or Norway, and, for the purposes of this wiki, "Rowling's Word is Law."
 * This, I will concdede, is a good reason for listing the school as located in either Sweden or Norway.FallenAngelII 08:56, 17 August 2009 (UTC)


 * As for the Durmstrang's coat of arms, this was designed by the filmmakers for GoF, so the Cyrillic characters on it might not be in line with JKR's vision. However, if one wants to try to rationalize the cultural disparity, Norway does share a small portion of the northeast corner of its border with Russia, so it's possible that the wizarding community there, being isolated like wizarding communities generally are, has become something of a cultural enclave.


 * The name is harder to explain away. However, the school has existed since at least 1294, so it's possible it was founded at a point in time when people in Sweden and Norway were still speaking an older, more Germanic language (Old Norse? I'm sorry, but my philological knowledge is patchy, at best.). It's also possible that Durmstrang was named after a German witch or wizard who moved to the region to set up a school. Maybe this person figured they'd face less trouble in placing Dark Arts on the curriculum if the school was located in a remote region of the northernmost part of the continent.
 * In 1294, Swedish was very much the same as it is today (it was, of course, different, but largely the same). I imagine it was the same for Norwegian. And though languages are Germanic in nature, as far as I know, no words even remotely resembling "Durmstrang" either in spelling or in pronunciation have ever existed in either.FallenAngelII 08:56, 17 August 2009 (UTC)


 * My point is that, yes, it's illogical for Bulgarians to attend a school in Norway with a German name that's apparently written in a Russian script, but that doesn't mean it's not canon, just like Slytherin's first name is still Salazar, even though it makes little historical sense for a British man who's supposed to have lived circa 1000AD to have a Spanish surname for a given name. <font color="Green">★ <font face="Times" color="green">S <font face="Times" color="dimgrey">t <font face="Times" color="green">a <font face="Times" color="dimgrey">r <font face="Times" color="green">s <font face="Times" color="dimgrey">t <font face="Times" color="green">u <font face="Times" color="dimgrey">f <font face="Times" color="green">f <font face="Times" color="darkgreen">(Owl me!) 06:27, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Given that Rowling's word is law, as stated above, this article should be reviewed by someone knowledgeable, as there are about four or five different locations mentioned in different parts of the article. 67.230.132.192 10:24, December 11, 2010 (UTC)

I wonder what language they'd be speaking at such a school with such a diverse student body (and supposedly faculty). I mean, how could a scandinavian student (at least in their early years) be able to communicate with an eastern european student?? Even English classes aren't that adsvanced for 10 year-olds in Sweden and the option to study German is usually not available until you're eleven or twelve (and that is in a muggle school if there is instructors available for that language), Even more confusing is how the Durmstrang students (or at least Krum) seemed to have problem with the English. Thing is, English would have been the most logical language between students in a multi-nationality school. They should be pretty secure with it. Unless, of course, Durmstrang uses some kind of obscure translation spell (in which case there shouldn't have been any language barrier at all during the turnament).

Though I have an odd feeling that Durmstrang isn't Scandinavian at all. I mean, it might be located in Scandinavia but we were never presented to a Durmstrang student with a Scandinavian name. Rather, the institute seems to have heavy slavic overtones. As such, it might be that is owned (privately, I would wager) by someone outside of Scandinavia and that it is adapted for a non-scandinavian student body. That would explain the foregn students, the kyryllic letters, the ridiculous (sorry!) clothes and the foreign name. Given the name I would wager that it was built/originally owned by a German/-ish wizard/witch but that over the century the ownership has slipped eastward and possibly north. Aryllia 10:17, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

If you take a look at the history of Denmark it shows that there is no reason why a German name and cyryllic letters could not appear i the cheast. The Danish empire was spreed out to England, Sweeden, Norway, the Baltic countries, parts of Finland, the Northern part of Germany and Normandy. Between around 900 -1448 these countries and regions were at one point or another part of the Danish empire. http://www.zum.de/whkmla/histatlas/scandinavia/haxdenmark.html00:42, August 1, 2012 (UTC)[[Special:Contributions/85.218.165.61|85.218.165.61]]

Norway
OK, so we know that J.K. Rowling has said that Durmstrang is located in the far north of either Norway or Sweden. However, after doing some research into the geography of these two counties I've concluded that only Norway can be the true location of the Institute. We learn in GOF that Durmstrang is located in the far north, as the students wear fur cloaks as part of their uniforms. This fact alone do not establish either Sweden or Norway as Durmstrang's host country. It is Viktor Krums's convrsation with Hermione at the Yule Ball that does this. We learn from Viktor that the castle is situated in a mountainous reigon, and is in close proximity to at least two lakes. Viktor then goes into great detail in describing the climate at Durmstrang, stating that during the winter months there is very little sunlight. The highest point in Sweden is the mountain Kebnekaise at 6926 feet. This is fairly diminutive when compared with Norway's highest mountain Galdhøpiggen which measures 8,100 feet. Sweden's highest peak is not of a significant altitude to restrict sunlight to the degree that Viktor describes, but Norway's certainly is. Furthermore, Galdhøpiggen is surrounded by several major lakes including Gjende and Russvatnet, wheras the northernmost point of Sweden has no lakes, the closest lake being Torneträsk, which is located in the northwest. So, do I have a case? Or have I been reading way too much geography? Is this not a case of Rowling unintentionally making something canon? She herself stated that Durmstrang was in either Sweden or Norway, and Sweden just doesn't match Krum's descriptions, wheras Norway does - perfectly. Jayden Matthews 16:45, December 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Seems fair. Perhaps we should add that it is most likely in Norway and add this information you gathered in the BTS section: one mustn't forget that alternatively Durmstrang can be located in a fictional area of Sweden. -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 21:59, December 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. I guess I figured that we would assume our world is the same as the wizarding world except in those cases were it specifically differs. At any rate the last thing I want to do is add speculation. I recently tore apart the BTS section for this very reason, so, I'll leave the final say on where this info goes (if anywhere) to you. Thank god for Google Earth, right? Jayden Matthews 22:17, December 28, 2010 (UTC)

Of course I realise that "Rowling's word is a law" so I will not struggle to convince anybody that Durmstrang Institute may be also located on e.g. southern Kola Peninsula or northern Ural mountains, in Russia (the main arguments are: surnames of mentioned students, use of cyrilic alphabet and the fact that geographical description of its location also fits places I mentioned) but I can't agree with argumentation given above. The height of a mountain (especially if we talk about difference of 1200 feet, and 350 m, which is too small to affect insolation) has no influence on amount of light at all, comparing to latitude of a given place. The higher latitude the shorter day becomes in winter and the longer it is in summer (that's why above the polar circle occur polar days and nights). Moreover latitude influence height of Sun at noon. So it's not altitude of mountain but latitude that cause lack of Sun in winter. The only thing we can assume is that Durmstrang Institute is located below polar circle, as Krum mentions that there is much less sunlight, still there is some, so it's on the area where polar night can't occur. Enmebaragesi

Possible depiction
While browsing the internet, I found this image from the book Harry Potter Film Wizardry. It's one of the ice sculptures placed in the Great Hall for the Yule Ball, and I think it may be Durmstrang Castle. Check out these examples of Medieval Norweigian architecture. Jayden Matthews 16:43, January 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree. -- Sa  X   on 19:47, January 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * I have the Harry Potter Film Wizardry book. It says the sculpture is based on the Royal Pavilion in Brighton. Durmstrang87 (talk) 00:20, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

Building
The Hogwarts building is a castle, the Beauxbatons building is a palace. What is the building for the Durmstrang school.

Bizarre Introduction
From the article:

''The Durmstrang Institute is a wizarding school. It is located in the northernmost regions of either Bulgairia,<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-maggie_0-1">[1] <sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-gofhermione_1-1">[2] although the latter is most likely.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-Norway_2-1">[3] Durmstrang has, however, taught students from as far afield as Bulgaria.''

What latter? Is 'Bulgairia' a typo, or is it a Wizarding location? If the location is Bulgaria, why is it noteworthy to inform us the school taught people from the country in which the school is situated? I'd fix this myself but I don't know enough about Durmstrang to confirm the correct information.

I think I saw that on HP lexicon, except it was Sweden or Norway, the latter most likely. Maybe someone was confused that Krum was Bulgarian. Durmstrang87 (talk) 00:29, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

Eagle on the Durmstrang Crest
I am German and I know the eagle on our flag. But I don't think that there is a similarity in shape. Harry granger 18:02, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

I'm German as well and I do agree. The eagle featured on the Durmstrang crest doesn't resemble the German one. A double-headed eagle was used in the coat of arms of the Holy Roman Empire and later the German Federation, though.. Double-headed eagles are featured in the coat of arms of some German cities like Essen or Cologne, too. The countries featuring a double-headed eagle on their coat of arms today are Russia, Serbia, Montenegro and Albania. (Dyntia 22:40, December 22, 2011 (UTC))

Two questions
Are there any macigal universities? And how many school years you have to spend in Durmstrang. Thank You very much and Greets from Germany XD --77.3.123.220 16:10, February 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * ? --95.114.126.50 13:08, March 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * Valid question. We do not currently know how many years of study there are in Durmstrang. There are no magical universities England (according to JKR), but as for the rest of the world, we do not know. DisturbedLemon 15:49, April 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * Viktor Krum was eighteen when Durmstrang came to Hogwarts in 1994. So he is one year older than both Cedric and Fleur. Could this mean that students attending Durmstrang are there for eight years rather than seven? - User:Simen Johannes Fagerli

Girls at Durmstrang in GoF Film?
It was assumed in the move that Durmstrang was an all boys school. I was watching a peice of the movie and I saw this picture. Its the Durmstrang students cheering on Viktor Krum in the thrid task. If you look closely, there are girls in the Durmstrang section. Durmstrang87 (talk) 00:27, August 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * That these girls are rooting for Durmstrang is not proof of anything; Goyle can be seen supporting Krum, and Roger Davies can be seen among the Beauxbatons students supporting Fleur, but that does not change the fact that they are both Hogwarts students. -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 01:49, August 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thats true as you have to remember that Victor Krum is a famous Quidditch player so it wouldn't come as a surprise that some people would be supporting him even if they weren't in his school. Rainbow Shifter (talk) 07:13, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

There is a rumour...
"There is a rumour about the fact that the Durmstrang Institute has been founded by Salazar Slytherin after he left Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. By this way, it could explain why this school doesn't admit Muggle-born students."

Do we have a canon source for this? Where do this come from?


 * It's fanon, added by an anonymous user. I've removed it. Thanks for pointing it out! -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 16:37, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

Name
I don't think Durmstrang's Germanic name means much as far as it's location. Like at Hogwarts, even though they speak English, the name "Hogwarts" doesn't mean anything, unless the W.O.M.B.A.T. thing about The location and name of Hogwarts were both chosen by Rowena Ravenclaw, who dreamed that a warty hog was leading her to the cliff by the lake is true. Rabbitty (talk) 17:11, July 1, 2013 (UTC)

International?
I know that it isn't branches of the school around the world, but could one count Durmstrang as an International school? I mean, it's located somewhere in the Nordic countries, while having students from all over the world. From Bulgaria (Krum), and possibly Polan and Germany, (Poliakoff and Grindelwald), and it do happen some from even the UK goes there instead of Hogwarts.
 * Simen, signing your posts is your own business, not other peoples'. <font face="French Script MT"><font size="6" color="cyan">MinorStoop  12:37, December 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm waiting for an actual answer... still.

Strenght obsessed?
Don't misunderstand, I just love the more recent descriptions of Grindelwald's time as a Durmstrang students, but on his article, and while is sounds reasonably likely, it says: "He was educated at the Durmstrang Institute, where he excelled at magic and absorbed much of the strength-obsessed and Darkness-flavored school culture."

When it says strenght-obsessed, what does that mean, exactly? Where does it say the focus on Durmstrang is obsessed with making their students 'strong'? I did a little research, and all I could find was this fanfiction where Karkaroff headed Durmstrang and spoke at the Welcoming Feast:

"Another year of magical education awaits each and every one of you. To all those who have never set their foot within these halls before, I welcome you. Welcome to the point in your lives where your training in the study of the many disciplines of magic at last begins. Now: before I can allow you your first meal within the walls of this instiute, it is important that you all understand and that your older students are reminded of, our values. Our motto: Arte Magica Ego Pervenire Successus.

''Know that at this fine institution, you will face challenges. At this school you will learn the true meaning of having your potential be put to the test, and we will do our best to ensure that you will not only find your limits, but also surpass them. Know this that it is expected that all students who choose to use magic at this school outside classes, do so to the best of their ability. Through hard work and discipline, you will all become strong, and you will all become powerful. You will learn how to handle the world. Its harsh brutality and its unparalleled beauty. I hope and believe that you all will find your place in this castle. Know that here, it is always possible to receive help for those who request it. Likewise, I take it for granted that your seniors will be available to assist you in your need of guidance outside school hours and scheduled office hours. You are from this day, exclusively part of the elite. From this day forth: You are sons and daughters of Durmstrang. May your stay offer many experiences that you will benefit from. That said, the meal will be served in a few minutes. Be seated.''"

But where does the exceptionally great writing on Grindelwald's page come from? The text above certainly isn't canon. So question is: Is it just an assumption?


 * Simen, signing your posts is your own business, not other peoples'. <font face="French Script MT"><font size="6" color="cyan">MinorStoop  12:37, December 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't know exactly where that was taken from, but I think it may derive from the teaching of the Dark Arts there, coupled with Karkaroff's overall treatment of his students. However, and as you rightfully pointed out, that could be just a poor assumption. I wouldn't complain (quite on the contrary) if it was replaced by a more objective-sounding, NPoV wording. -- <font style="color:#333333;"> Seth Cooper <font style="background:#333333;color:white;"> owl post! 17:38, December 2, 2013 (UTC)