Talk:Second Wizarding War

Should the duel in the graveyard between Harry and Voldemort in Goblit of Fire be in this article? - Scrimgeour

Aurors
Why do you keep calling the order Aurors only Tonks and Kingsley are. (Jack the monkey yo ho ho 21:25, 14 July 2007 (UTC))

Name Change?
If the official name of the war is the Second Wizarding War, then that is what the article's name should be. --Bounty Offering 22:55, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree. And the First War should also be moved. -- DarkJedi613 (Talk) 02:40, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Too long
The article seems to cluttered with all the battle templates. Maybe we should split several of the major battles and skirmishes from the article.  bibliomaniac 15 01:40, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree, I think we should have a small blurb for each battle and a seperate page describing the details, etc. -- DarkJedi613 (Talk) 02:41, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * agreed. Me_Potter_Fan 00:01, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I made some editations. I'm not sure if this changes your opinion on whether or not it should be split? Mafalda Hopkirk 23:26, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Not really, I still think its huge. Great job in fixing it up though! One thing I did notice is we have an article Battle of Hogwarts as well as a lengthy section in this article. That could probably be summarized better and have the main template added. I'll probably get around to doing it later - might have to merge some parts. -- DarkJedi613 (Talk) 23:28, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Haha, well, it's ok - i think they should have their own pages anyway. 161.11.121.122 23:36, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I think we should take partial inspiration from the Clone Wars article over at Wookieepedia. They have the article as an overview of the War, with main templates directing to larger articles about certain battles/ events.  I think this, as DarkJedi613 suggests, is the way to go. -  Cavalier One ( Wizarding Wireless Network ) 23:39, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I seperated out the "Battle of Hogwarts" section into the main article. Hopefully we can do something similar for all the other sections. -- DarkJedi613 (Talk) 17:49, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

It looks really messy. -Snoops619
 * I've made an attempt at separating the Battle of the Department of Mysteries.24.141.82.173 04:11, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I just attempted to make a separate article for the Battle over Little Whinging. Oread 18:10, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I removed the infoboxes for the Battles of the Department of Mysteries, of Malfoy Manor, and over Little Whinging, since those appear in the main articles and the same was done regarding the Battle of Hogwarts when it was separated out. I think it looks a little funny, though, so if anyone thinks they should be restored, feel free. Oread 01:28, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Hogwarts battles
Should it be 'First Battle of Hogwarts' and 'Second Battle of Hogwarts' or 'Battle of the Lightning Struck Tower' and 'Battle of Hogwarts'? - M  a t o r  o  183  ( T a  l k 22:37, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I used to refer to them as such, but I generally go for the Battle of the Astronomy Tower for the first battle, and the Battle of Hogwarts for the second. - Cavalier One ( Wizarding Wireless Network ) 23:39, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! - M  a t o r  o  183  ( T a  l k 00:54, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I think that we should not use "first" and "second" battle of Hogwarts, instead use the names given by Cavalier, because "The Battle of Hogwarts" is the one identified as such by the author in the final book. The other is should be always named Battle of the Astronomy Tower (or Lightning-Struck Tower). Lord Opeth 19:56, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Which Battles Should Be Considered Under The War?
Doesn't the Second Wizarding War officially begins as OotP end and before HBP, as the final chapter in OotP said. So should the Battle of the Graveyard in Little Hangleton and The Battle of the Department of Mysteries be considered under this War? Because Voldemort and his Death Eaters did not openly attack until the summer after OotP and before HBP, when they blew up that bridge that killed all those muggles and killed Amelia Bones and Emmeline Vance. Speaking of those killings, should it be consider battles as well, as Amelia is powerful Ministry witch, and Emmeline Vance was a powerful Order member. (Seasrmar)

I think that the rebirth of Voldemort is not a battle, was only a duel. Same with the murders of Emmeline, Amelia and Scrimgeur. Lord Opeth 19:54, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I forgot to mention the night when Barty Crouch Jr. attacked Mad Eye Moody and begin his impersonation of Moody for the GoF year. But yeah, I agree with you; I think they are just like skirmishes. We could cut this article down a little, by removing the all the bit before the First Battle of Hogwarts, since that in my opinion was the first really battle in the war. The Battle of the Department of Mysteries, while indeed a battle did took place, it was not until afterward when the second war officially begin begin. (Seasrmar)
 * I disagree. I believe that everything from (and including) the duel in the Little Hangleton Graveyard should be added.  The history of World War I begins with the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand, not when the trenches were dug.  The history of the Second Wizarding War should begin with the rebirth of Lord Voldemort. -  Cavalier One ( Wizarding Wireless Network ) 09:36, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

The assassination of the Archduke was not not a part of WWI because nobody at that time could have predicted a full World War was going to happen as a result. It could have just been between the Serbs and Austria-Hungary Empire, not include a series of world alliances that lead it to be known as a World War. The Assassination was just a spark prelude to the war. The Assassination happen on June 28, 1914, War was not official until July 28, 1914. Just as in WWII, when Hitler broke the Treaty of Versailles and annexing Austria, then to get part Czechoslovakia, and mobilizing troops heading toward Poland, it was just prelude War. It was not until Germany openly attacked Poland, and official recognized as a threat, and other nations whether Allies or Axis begin to take their part. So in the series, the events that happen in Sorcerer's Stone, Chamber of Secrets, Prisoner of Azkaban, Goblet of Fire, and Order of the Phoenix, were just sparks that prelude to the Second Wizard War. So we should seperate what is considered prelude from the War. We can have under the same article, but have a seperate parts between the two wars, and part that actually for the war. (Seasrmar)
 * I didn't say that WWI started with the assassination of the Archduke, I said the history does - that every major textbook or historical review that I've ever read covered the subject and included the Archduke. Similarly, this article needs to cover the major factors leading up to the war.  I agree that it can be worked into a new framing - three sections such as Prelude to War, The Second War, and Aftermath - with each event properly located in the timeline. -  Cavalier One ( Wizarding Wireless Network ) 23:04, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I see what you mean, I really do. Some history books and commentaries view the assassination include the Assassination as part of the War, while other doesn't, until a declaration was made a month later, like describe in the book, The Guns of August, and also particularly to military historians like my father, and soon me. I guess and it's ok with me for the sake of not having an argument on here, let's us agree to disagree on that one. I agree with what you said about spliting it into three parts. Would you then consider the parts I mention above as prelude to war then? Also, I'm new here, as you probably can tell, I don't even know how to sign my name on here. lol. So I don't even know how to edit the article, if you can please do so. I'll wait for what others have to say. (Seasrmar)
 * Firstly, to sign your name on talk pages, just type ~ instead of your name. This produces a signature that includes your user name, the current time and the date.  As for the framing, the Prelude to War section would probably include events from Philosopher's Stone, Chamber of Secrets, Prisoner of Azkaban, and Goblet of Fire.  The Second War would, to me, include the Battle of the Department of Mysteries from Order of the Phoenix(since this is the Death Eaters and Voldemort's first public appearance since the end of the First War), and events from Half-Blood Prince and Deathly Hallows.  Aftermath would cover what little we know from Deathly Hallows and all of the subsequent information JK has released. -  Cavalier One ( Wizarding Wireless Network ) 08:02, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, you already know my opinion on what I consider as the beginning of the Second Wizarding War, and that is going by the last chapter name in Order of the Phoenix, which appropriately name, The Second War Begins, and this took place after the Battle of the Department of Mysteries. Voldemort and the Death Eaters did not openly attacked until after this Battle; and this Battle in my opinion was not originally intend to be a battle. It was just a covet operation by Voldemort and Death Eaters to lure Harry to the Department of Mysteries in hope of having him retrieve the prophecies. They did not intend on the Order showing up, and a battle ensue. Seasrmar 05:59, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

I think the Infiltration of the Ministry and the Battle of Malfoy Manor could be cut out, because these are only skirmishes rather than battles. Battles should involve a substantial number of combatants on each side, not just a few-vs-few, and feature prolonged action rather than a brief fight lasting only a couple of minutes. Perhaps the article should have a section for major battles, and another section of notable actions including skirmishes, rather than trying to lump everything as battles. Magi COS 11:42, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Recent Edit
Can the details of the recent edit by Cornamenta be verified? I don't remember Yaxley having the first name "Arnold." Mafalda Hopkirk 01:56, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Smells like fanon to me. Removed for now. -  Cavalier One ( Wizarding Wireless Network ) 12:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Recent name change
I don't believe we need "The" in the article title. Second Wizarding War should suffice. We don't have articles named "The Ministry of Magic" or "The Order of Phoenix". - Cavalier One ( Wizarding Wireless Network ) 10:03, 17 January 2008 (UTC) I'll change it back then.Me_Potter_Fan 11:02, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Casualties
It says that hundreds died on Voldemort's side but this doesn't seem right too me since their wernt that many death eaters. Me_Potter_Fan
 * I don't think we're ever given any exact figure on Voldemort's forces at all, let alone casualties. Only Voldemort and Bellatrix (and technically Snape but he was double agent) are known to have died on the DE side during the battle I believe. -  Cavalier One ( Wizarding Wireless Network ) 12:25, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Causualties for Death Eaters
I belive that all the Death Eaters who are described as being defeated in the final stages of the Battle of Hogwarts should be included as DE casualties

Mando Warrior 15:33, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Why? Casualties would imply that they are dead, and there is no Canonical evidence of that being the case. -  Cavalier One ( Wizarding Wireless Network ) 15:43, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Second Wizarding War Title HEading
I noted that the titles headings under the section detailing the second wizarding war use the book titles. I understood the policy was that articles had to be written "in-universe" style. So shouldn't they use the years instead eg 1991-92. The constents section would need to be changed also wouldn't it?--Darth FatBoy 23:02, 5 May 2008 (UTC)Darth FatBoy


 * You're probably right. --Freakatone 23:13, 5 May 2008 (UTC)