In working on clean-up methods for the bot, there is a need to discuss the "Family categories" and how they should be organized and applied. It's probably easiest to look at an example like Tom Riddle. Beyond "Riddle family", should the Tom Riddle article also have the "Gaunt family" category, the "Slytherin family", or even "Peverell family" applied? Is, or should, the intent of the Family categories to track genealogy or just Surnames (so only Merope would be in both "Riddle family" and "Gaunt family")?
In terms of organization, should "Gaunt family" be under "Slytherin family" implying that all Gaunts are part of Slytherin? While this appears to be true from the examples we know of, at some point isn't it possible, or even likely, that the Gaunts were a separate family before marrying a Slytherin, hence the separate surname?
Another familiar example would be Albus Potter - should he have "Potter family", "Weasley family", "Prewett family", and "Peverell family"?
All thoughts are appreciated - the category organization is in need of a lot of work so figuring out the intended uses now will help guide those efforts later. Many thanks --Ironyak1 (talk) 16:26, April 26, 2017 (UTC)
- In working through this, I have an idea for one possible solution. Under the family category, such as "Peverell family", have another category "Peverell descendants" for more distant relations. That way Ignotus, his brothers, son and grandaughter are "Peverell family", but Gaunt family and most Potters are "Peverell descendants". This keeps them together but distinct in the category system.
- The follow-on is that only people who bear the name are in the family category. Only Molly is both "Prewett family" and "Weasely family" although all her children and grandchildren are "Prewett descendants" (as well as "House of Black descendants" through Arthur). Any thoughts or ideas are appreciated! --Ironyak1 (talk) 15:57, May 4, 2017 (UTC)
- Thanks for the feedback Kates39. I think having such a distinction for descendants will help to understand who all is related without everyone being put in that family category. I'll see if anyone else has thoughts before beginning to implement this later in the week. Cheers --Ironyak1 (talk) 23:22, May 8, 2017 (UTC)
In starting to work through this, I wanted to get some other perspectives on the end goals. As it is now, Category:Gaunt family is a subcategory of Category:Peverell family descendants and Category:Slytherin family descendants, which is accurate. However, the implications of this are that when you add an article to the Gaunt family or Gaunt family descendants, it implies both Peverell and Slytherin family descendants, but will not show those. You have to understand, or explore through the category tree, that relationship.
Another option would be to remove this arrangement in the category tree so that each family descendant category would be added to an article. For instance, Tom Riddle would have Gaunt, Peverell, and Slytherin family descendants categories, instead of just Gaunt family descendants. This might make it easier to see descendant relationships (like how the Potter family are not only distantly related to Tom Riddle, but also Gormlaith Gaunt and Rionach Steward as well.)
- It's long been an informal policy that family categories adhere to the patrilineal system of descent, whereby women marry into their husbands' families, and children are only considered part of their father's family. This is because this is the system of descent primarily featured in the books and historically used in the UK.
- So, basically, Molly Weasley would be cross-categorized under both Category:Prewett family (the family into which she was born) and Category:Weasley family (the family into which she married). But the Weasley siblings wouldn't be categorized under Category:Prewett family because they're not considered Prewetts. There are exceptions, of course, such as Rose and Hugo Granger-Weasley, who were given both their parents' surnames, and could thus arguably be considered part of both the Granger and Weasley families. But adhering to the patrilineal system of descent in general simplifies family categorization.
- I like the idea of "descendants" categories. The "family" categories would be for the more straightfoward documentation of individual members of various families, while the "descendants" categories would allow one to navigate the complex, fascinating web of genealogical relationships. I think it would probably be preferable to individually add all applicable family descendant categories to character articles. It would be simpler to just have Category:Gaunt family as a subcategory of Category:Peverell family descendants, but it's possible there were Gaunts who weren't descended from Cadmus, at least far back. ★ Starstuff (Owl me!) 01:49, July 29, 2017 (UTC)