Talk: Canon

Archive 1

Wonderbook games

Should the Wonderbook games be considered Tier One or Tier Two? Personally, I'd place them under Tier One, since the new information in them comes directly from J. K. Rowling, even if the manner in which that information is presented (i.e., the video games) was created by another party. I sort of consider it to be the equivalent of Pottermore, in that JKR wrote all the new information, but the website was designed by other people. ★ Starstuff ^{(Owl me!)} 17:22, March 11, 2016 (UTC)

If the information comes from J.K. Rowling, then regardless of the method of presentation, they're the top tier source. J.K Rowling's word is law and it always supercedes everything else. --Sajuuk 17:24, March 11, 2016 (UTC)

Except JKR has said she wrote the information on the Famous Wizard Cards. Which, presumably, means the real-world trading cards that were released with the licensed product Chocolate Frogs they used to have, as well as the Famous Wizard Cards featured in the early video games. But both the video games and the trading cards have always been under Tier Three, and I'm hesitant to shake up that order. ★ Starstuff ^{(Owl me!)} 17:31, March 11, 2016 (UTC)

Cursed Child story vs Cursed Child script

"Cursed Child story" is tier 1 while Cursed Child script is tier 2? What exactly is the distinction being made here? --Ironyak1 (talk) 07:21, January 10, 2017 (UTC)

Bumping - can someone please explain where the Tier-1 "Cursed Child story" stops and the Tier-2 "Cursed Child script" begins? --Ironyak1 (talk) 00:28, January 12, 2017 (UTC)

I know that making a distinction between the story vs. the whole text itself is weird. We can assume that if Rowling wanted to write a book set after the events of Cursed Child, she would based her work on it. Of course it's just a supposition. The dialogues are clearly not from her but what is happening in the books was co-developed by her. So for example: to me the Delphini's existence is tier-one canon. Her dialogues are not. Albus Potter and Scorpius Malefoy being in Slytherin and friends is tier-one canon but what they talk about is not. She also tweeted that she considers the story canon. Some reports also suggest that JKR went on board after meeting with Jack Thorne and John Tiffany and gave them material. This link might interest you FrenchPygmyPuff (talk) 00:59, January 12, 2017 (UTC)

It is a difficult one because the play was not written by her. We don't know what her original idea was and what material Thorne and Tiffany added. We don't know what characters were made up by them. I think it is safe to assume a lot of it wasn't created by her and she didn't write the dialogue, along with the plot holes Rowling would probably not have created had she wrote it herself. However, they marketed it as the eighth story most likely so they could get a lot more interest in it, Rowling said she thinks it is canon and the main law we have on the wikia is that her word is highest level of canon we have. We can't start picking which parts we like the look of and what parts we don't based on how absurd we find it. Until Rowling retracts what she said, which I don't think she ever will unfortunately because it will upset everyone else involved in the play, everything in the play has to be tier one canon. Yes, Rowling probably didn't write the dialogue, but how can you be certain she invented Delphi as well? When she approved the play by declaring it canon, she approved everything. Kates39 (talk) 11:46, January 12, 2017 (UTC)

You said that Rowling thinks it is canon, but I made the distinction following her tweet: ("The story of #CursedChild should be considered canon, though. @jackthorne, John Tiffany (the director) and I developed it together."). She specifically tweeted about the story not the script (dialogue, etc.) itself. It is also similar in a way to the fact that only the content from Pottermore provided by Rowling herself is tier-one but not the website as a whole as it contains a lot of things wrote by the site’s staff (based on the novels, movies, etc.). The Pottermore Presents ebooks also have a specific status since they also contain texts (introductions) from the PM’ staff and not just Rowling’s work. I also made a distinction between the book covers and illustrations contained in the books she did not created vs. The ones she created. The novels are all in Tier-one, but in the introduction I specified “Most of the sources below include some content not coming from Rowling herself such as book covers or illustrations; this type of content is excluded from tier-one. Only the visual arts J.K. Rowling created herself as well as her own pronunciation, intonation, etc. (from videos and audio recordings of her reading her writings or talking about their content for example) belong to this category.” If we don't make a distinction between the script/story in the policy we should at least keep the note (“Only the story was co-developed by J.K. Rowling and considered canon by her (J.K. Rowling (@jk_rowling) on Twitter: "The story of #CursedChild should be considered canon, though. @jackthorne, John Tiffany (the director) and I developed it together.") but she did not write the play.”). But I think separating script / story is the easiest way to content most ppl since there is a huge debate about the canonicity of Harry Potter and the Cursed Child. Maybe Rowling will give us more clarity when the definitive edition will be released. FrenchPygmyPuff (talk) 15:40, January 12, 2017 (UTC)

I do see what your saying. The script sometimes recreates a scene from the original books but adds new dialogue - things we know they couldn't have said in the same universe as the original books. However, when the books were being marketed it was stated that the story is just based on an original idea by Rowling. We don't know what that was and how much Thorne and Tiffany invented. We can't start picking what is more authentic to us because of what Rowling vaguely says. The script is what makes the story. A lot of the dialogue adds to the stories of the characters for example, and tells us things abouts spells and Hogwarts. It gives us the details - such as Draco's redemption. By excluding the script, we exclude things like that. It is basically saying that he got a redemption arc but not in the way he said which is strange. How can we separate the dialogue from the story when it is telling the reader what is happening a lot of the time and what characters are feeling? I know there is a huge debate about the canonicity of the play but the problem isn't just with the dialogue. What is the cut off line between the basic story and the things people say? Kates39 (talk) 16:43, January 12, 2017 (UTC)

Shouldn’t the Harry Potter: Hogwarts Mystery game considered as Tier 3 Canon?

Harry Potter: Hogwarts Mystery is published by Warner Bros., so in my opinion it would be Tier 3 canon. - Cherryblossom000 (talk/wall|contributions) 10:03, April 24, 2018 (UTC)

I agree. The game fits the definition of Tier 3 canon. - Kates39 (talk) 13:04, April 24, 2018 (UTC)

That is correct. I added it to the list. --  Seth Cooper  owl post! 18:44, April 24, 2018 (UTC)

Crimes of Grindelwald

Shouldn't Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald be on this page? Is the official screenplay tier 1 and film tier 2 like with Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them (film)? PetStarPlanet (talk) 23:44, November 3, 2018 (UTC)

Yep - added. Thanks! --Ironyak1 (talk) 01:24, November 4, 2018 (UTC)