- "Figurative" and "encyclopedic text" do not mix. At any rate, I would stuggle to call what Ironyak1 just removed from the article figurative language; it literally was baseless speculation passing as fact. -- 19:35, March 18, 2018 (UTC)
I'm afraid you misunderstood me: The "firgurative sensor beep" denoted the act of reverting percived speculation when there's no need to do so.
Uh, no, it didn't. First off, it is not baseless: Death Eaters are dark witches and wizards. They use Dark Magic. DADA class is all about defending against Dark Magic. The Death Eaters were a threat to almost everyone, and the Death Eater dummies had their likeness, allowing students to see how Death Eaters look like, which is undeniably useful in case they encountered them after school/between semesters. Given Voldemort's uprising and the ruthlessness of his followers, any DADA professor employed by Dumbledore duing the first wizarding war would've been expected, at the very least, to do their best to contribute to improve their student's ability to defend themselves. Then you have mechanical Death Eaters in the school grounds shortly after the fall of Voldemort, on which students practice defensive spells between classes, and defensive spells in taught in DADA class. The likelihood of a DADA teacher crafting them for teaching purposes is almost ridiculously more probable than the Ministry, which were as Sirius put it, in dissaray, torn between trying to fight back and hide the magical world from Muggles, would take the time to "build toys for the students to jinx" while in open warfare. And - well, theoretically they could have been bought off some random bloke in Diagon Alley during the war by Dumbledore or some teacher, it is kind of a random thing to put on the market. What would most people need them for? Students would need them, they're still learning, most adults were probably expected to know defensive spells already, so - less likely. Secondly, if making a pineapple tap-dance across a desk is within the ability of an eleven year old kid at the end of their first year, making a human-sized Death Eater dummy for the students to jinx is something any half-decent adult should be able to do with little to no difficulty.
This aside, however, I didn't pass it off as fact, I passed it off as a likely (indeed, the most likely) explonation of fact. A so-called "educated guess" of the type found littered around the wiki. Ninclow (talk) 20:04, March 18, 2018 (UTC)
- None of the above makes it more likely (though the note in the article read that it was apparent, not likely) that a) a DADA teacher crafted them, b) they were used in DADA classes, c) they were stored in the Room of Requirement instead of conjured by the Room, d) they weren't commercially available. A multitude of different scenarios can be devised using the very same known facts; no one seems to be significantly more likely than the other. -- 20:14, March 18, 2018 (UTC)
The question about how or why the Room of Requirements would have any concept about what a Death Eater is aside, how exactly is commercially available Death Eater dummies be more or even equally likely to a DADA teacher making them for the benefit of students needing to know how to defend themselves from Death Eaters? Ninclow (talk) 20:22, March 18, 2018 (UTC)
- Really? The Room of Requirement would know what a Death Eater is the same way it knows what chamberpots are. I also fail to see what's so implausible about charmed spell-casting training devices being available commercially. Or issued by the Ministry. Or being conjured for uses other than DADA classes. Or being thrown together by students themselves. Or... (and I could go on and on). -- 23:02, March 18, 2018 (UTC)
Because we're not merely talking someone selling charmed spell-casting training devices, we are talking someone selling charmed spell-casting training devices in the form of life-sized Death Eaters. Outside of a school setting used to prepare students to face such individuals - such contraptions makes no sense at all. Imagine the reaction if someone sold life-sized dummies of Osama bin Laden or identified members of the IS in the same countries such terrorists were active and frequently murdered people in. Best case scenario, they get a strong verbal reaction because of just how completely inappropate it is, worst scenario, they'd be charged with terrorist propeganda/thrown in prison for possible connections to them. And I doubt some half-baked excuse about; "Uh, well, you see - ah, you are - eh, supposed to punch them, really," are gonna cut it in court. The same argument could be used about students. If students started making Death Eater dummies, with such an accurately detailed depiction of how a DE look like in terms of uniform etc, be suspected of being a DE sympathizer/related to and protecting the identity of Death Eaters and get in trouble for it?
That aside, did it ever occur to you that the Room of Recquirement might know what a chamber pot is because people have brought chamber pots into the room on various occassions? With the castle being more than a thousand years old, it is much, much more likely for the room to be cleverly bewitched to be able to categorize the objects brought inside the room and line them up depending on the need of the user than for it produce feats of magic that by all accounts would be impossible to accomplish without the wand, incantations and proper wand movement recquired to cast a spell to conjure up the specific objects someone just happen to need right there and then. Not to mention, of course, how the room would have been able to produce whole written works with every detail penned down by the author. Do you suppose the Room of Recquirement somehow reads loads of books, remember them by heart and duplicate them, or something? Ninclow (talk) 06:51, March 19, 2018 (UTC)
- If a product with no didactic use, such as Edible Dark Marks were sold during the height of the Second Wizarding War with no apparent issue, I can't see why this wasn't. Also, why couldn't this have been sold by special commission to Hogwarts? Also, how Death Eaters looked wasn't exactly a secret that only sympathisers were privy to.
- That's no indication that that's how the Room works, in fact, it appears that the Room simply Conjures items as needed. That much is noted in Deathly Hallows, when Neville says that the Room cannot provide food. -- 13:41, March 19, 2018 (UTC)