Talk: Morgan le Fay

Content of the article

I noticed that a lot of the article that was originally placed here concerned the "true" Morgan le Fay, and not the information that has been revealed through the Famous Wizard cards. For the time being, I've added the information and "hidden" the rest of the article while we dicuss it. The text is not deleted, just visible only when editing the page.

The question is, how in-depth do we go into a character article when that character is a historical figure? Do we have lengthy articles for historical wizards who only appear on Famous Wizard cards, supplementing the Canon info with legend and story? Personally, I feel using a Behind the scenes section and linking to the relevant Wikipedia article is good enough, since their article on the subject is usually more concise and detailed. Thoughts on this? - Cavalier One^{(Wizarding Wireless Network)} 10:40, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Linking to wiki is a good idea - i didn't know if that was ok by policy. I had in mind that chocolate frog card people might be good to have informative articles on but you're right about the changes. Linking to wiki would be better unless anyone has other ideas. Mafalda Hopkirk 13:44, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Anything that gives us more information is a good thing, and linking to Wikipedia is easy. The other factor is that the Morgan le Fay of legend may not be the same as the Morgan le Fay of the HP canon. - Cavalier One^{(Wizarding Wireless Network)} 13:51, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Dark Witch?

Shouldn't this article also be in the "Dark wizard" category? In the HP universe, Morgana was a Dark witch, according to this article and the entry at the HP Lexicon: "She was a dark sorceress, Merlin's enemy..." Seeing as Merlin is considered the greatest wizard of all time and preached living harmoniously with Muggles, this implies that Morgana did not agree and it says outright that she practiced the Dark Arts. Bellatrix Lestrange is in the Dark wizard category. Other than them both being witches, versus wizards, I don't see why Morgana shouldn't also fall under this category. Unless I'm blind and there is a more appropriate category, in which case I apologize for fussing.

Unless it says on her Famous Witch card that she was in fact Merlin's enemy, it's pure fantasy based on a novel written about Morgan le Fay centuries after her death (not JKR's books, i'm talking about a book written around the 1600s). I don't know why this article lists her as a dark sorceress. I've never seen the card, but Morgana was a great healer and protector of Avalon, hardly what any Dark Witch would spend her time doing. Mafalda Hopkirk 20:03, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you entirely about her history in established legend. But apparently it does say on the Famous Witch card that she was a "dark sorceress" and "Merlin's enemy". This is her entry from the HP Lexicon, verbatim:

Morgan le Fey, 'Morgana'

(medieval, dates unknown)

Also known as Morgana, this bird Animagus was King Arthur's half sister. She was a dark sorceress, Merlin's enemy, and she affected many events during her time. She was queen of the island of Avalon, and she had great skill as a healer. She appeared on one of the first Chocolate Frog trading cards Harry Potter ever saw (PS6).

"le fey" or "le fay" = French for "the faery."

(http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/a-z/m.html)

It also seems a little odd to me that a supposed dark sorceress would be a healer and a queen of Avalon, but there you have it. I haven't seen the actual card either, so I suppose it depends on how much trust one can put in the Lexicon. 72.39.64.248 20:27, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

The Lexicon isn't canon, so I can only wager to guess the entry is taken from stories about Morgan being evil. If it also says she was a healer it is contradictory. I'll remove the conflict by taking out the uncited dark sorceress bit, unless there is something in the books that I have missed or someone actually has the card. Mafalda Hopkirk 20:36, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

While the Lexicon isn't canon, they do pride themselves on information gleaned directly from the sources. As far as I can remember (having played the game), her Famous Witch card has that text on it, so placing her in the Dark Wizard category would be appropriate. - Cavalier One^{(Wizarding Wireless Network)} 20:43, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

The games aren't canon either though. If it's only in the game it should be on her "Famous Witch/Wizard Card" only (game term) and not her Chocolate Frog Card (novel term). Mafalda Hopkirk 20:47, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

At the moment, canonicity doesn't matter. Hopefully, we'll get some policy on Canon sorted soon, so it's not a debate I want to start. However, it's in an official product, therefore it gets mentioned. Also, Famous Witch and Wizard cards are another term for Chocolate Frog card. - Cavalier One^{(Wizarding Wireless Network)} 21:00, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Hopefully then it can be resolved when the canon policy is established. I'll leave it for now. Just going to reiterate that healers and witches of Avalon are not dark. Avalon was a haven for knowledge and peace. Mafalda Hopkirk 21:03, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

While not wishing to start an argument, I would like to point out that healer doesn't necessarily equal good. Even in todays world, there are selfish and evil doctors who use their skills for their own ends. Morgan le Fay may have been like this. - Cavalier One^{(Wizarding Wireless Network)} 21:15, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Article title

Hi there, just curious as to how it was decided that Morgana is used as a redirect and that "Morgan le Fay" is to be the title of the article. In my 2012 UK ebook copy of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, Ron said: "No, I’ve got Morgana again and I’ve got about six of her …" (also provided as the quote for the article,) so she was referred to as such first in canon. I know the cards in the games, also written by JKR, labeled her to be "Morgan le Fay," so it is indeed a canon-acknowledge name, but the chocolate frog cards on the old Pottermore once again displayed her name as "Morgana," and the opening paragraph of this article: "Morgan le Fay, more commonly known as Morgana [...]" so I'm just wondering why, if it's more commonly known, it is not used as the actual article name.

P.S.: I'm sorry if this is a silly question, I'm afraid I'm simply not familiar with the legend. --Sammm✦✧(talk) 08:58, September 26, 2018 (UTC)

Morgana was one of many names given to Morgan le Fay. Morgen was actually her original name. Morgana became the popular variation of it but you could say "Morgan le Fay" is her default name. Her wikipedia page is also called Morgan le Fay, and then it says also known as Morgana etc. I think whoever made the page decided to do the same. Rowling has used both names, so I would say both should be okay but I guess Morgana is the popular and well-known one. - Kates39 (talk) 09:22, September 26, 2018 (UTC)

Specifically, the name comes from the Wizards of the Coast Chocolate Frog Card which the HP Lexicon counts as canon as WotC said that they worked with JKR to ensure the accuracy of the information. HPL uses both names on their Morgana page, although we stick with the latest in-universe (or real-world as in-universe) use of the name for article titles (which is also why Merope Riddle is used and not Merope Gaunt for instance). While the status of these cards as first tier canon is not without reproach, these considerations support the article's current name. Hope this helps (and hi to Kates39! :) --Ironyak1 (talk) 09:33, September 26, 2018 (UTC)

Yes I completely forgot to think of Morgan le Fay's WotC card. I need to get back into the swing of things on the wikia, I spent too much time away it seems. (mainly wrote that to say a quick hi back to Ironyak, it's been too long! :) - Kates39 (talk) 20:47, September 26, 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, I've been out for most of the summer as well, but Nagini pulled me back in. Hard to pass up new canon even when we've gotten pretty good at guessing it. I'm sure Jo will sneak in something even more surprising for us (Graves lives! Just been hiding out in Paris ;) --Ironyak1 (talk) 22:24, September 26, 2018 (UTC)

Morgan being a Potioneer in brewing animagus potion

Are you even sure that the Animagus Potion was invented during or before Morgan's time or is this just speculation? Dazboy (talk) 20:46, June 24, 2020 (UTC)

The potion was required to become an Animagus.--Rodolphus (talk) 21:39, June 24, 2020 (UTC)