When I look at these two photos File:Rionach O'Neal.png and File:Fay.png I think there is a great similarity. Could it be that we have to do with the same person? When yes, there should not be a new article but the article for Fay Dunbar should be renamed because the name of Fay Dunbar comes from the video games and Rionach O'Neal belongs to the films, the higher tier canon. What do you think? Harry granger Talk contribs 19:32, October 6, 2012 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I don't quite see as strong a resemblance; perhaps it's just me, but they look quite different in my opinion. However, if others think they are similar enough, then I must concur that Fay Dunbar ought to be merged with Rionach O'Neal. --Hunniebunn (talk) 19:40, October 6, 2012 (UTC)
I'm sorry but I have to agree with Hunnie Bunn. They look nothing like each other. --94.191.186.254 11:31, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
It may be a bit late for this, but on second thought they do look vaguely similar. Same colour hair, same sort of nose, thing is - Fay has more coffee-like skin, whereas Rionach has highly flushed skin which would probably be white if it wasn't red. Nonetheles.. --Remember (Least We Forget) 03:09, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
If she's definitely in the same year as Harry et al, then isn't it most likely that she is Fay Dunbar's friend? -- Saxon 10:46, April 1, 2013 (UTC)
But isn't Fay's friend red-haired, whereas Rionach has brown hair? Besides, they were played by different actresses, suggesting different people. --Hunnie Bunn (talk) 13:52, April 1, 2013 (UTC)
She isn't a recast of Fay Dunbar
I was watching PoA. Then, I pause at this particular scene and found out that the girl is on the same scene as Fay Dunbar and her friend. So, the possibility that she is a recast of Fay is slim. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zaki alwi (talk • contribs) December 19, 2012.
The above content (with minor adjustment so the image isn't set to the left that would affect the text) is retrieved from a previously deleted Talk page, edit history of which can be found here. I'm not sure if at some point there was people insinuating she was "a recast of Fay Dunbar", but I think the post is saying Rionach is the one standing next to Angelina Johnson; a little blurry so I don't have an ultimate opinion on the matter, but what's troubling me is that the person next to her does look a bit like Crystal Stewart, who apparently, like Marianne Chase but less specific, was credited to be a "Quidditch Player", dunno if it's just a coincidence.--Sammm✦✧(talk) 05:17, November 24, 2019 (UTC)
Photo
The photo between the 1994 section and the 1995 section has "OOTP" in the title, hence why I thought it was from 1995. I wondered whether anyone had proof (apart from that that and the infobox image are almost identical) that it was from 1994. --Hunnie Bunn (talk) 00:44, April 1, 2013 (UTC)
I'm afraid it has been mislabeled. I can identify it from the scene in Goblet of Fire at the Gryffindor common room immediately before the Yule Ball. -- Seth Cooperowl post! 00:50, April 1, 2013 (UTC)
Oh, THAT's why they looked so similar... I just couldn't figure it out... (Now I feel smart). --Hunnie Bunn (talk) 00:51, April 1, 2013 (UTC)
Dumbledore's Army
Is there any reason that this character isn't listed anywhere at all on the Dumbledore's Army page, even though she apparently attended meetings? ProfessorTofty (talk) 02:39, July 10, 2013 (UTC)
It's my fault, I should have added her to the list after the page was created but forgot to do so. It has been done. --Hunnie Bunn (talk) 02:43, July 10, 2013 (UTC)
Hi, I have this question for quite some time, so I figured I'd just ask in case it's something easy to be provided. Not to discredit Hunnie Bunn and his edits, but can somewhat provide any sort of proof that those claims about this character being present during the DA meetings is true? I'm not saying what was written is a lie, but there's literally nothing backing up those claims; after viewing some of the Talk page discussions on HPW and seeing how, various times, some Users were seriously claiming 2 actresses that really don't look alike to possibly be the same person, please understand my doubts when it comes to people just assuming one random character to be the same as another random character. Seeing is believing, there's usually some visual aid to backup the claim, and in this article, it's very peculiarly missing. Like, I do believe those appearances could be true, but so far, nothing is really helping to convince me that they are, in fact, true.
I'd like to also clear up a few things? That girl from the kissing couple? That is indeed played by Actress Marianne Chase, as very specifically specified on her Spotlight profile, something her agency (Brynmoor Associates) provides when clicking to find out more about her, however, also note that, on said Spotlight profile, "Rionach O'Neal" was only attached to POA, with an (imo, rather odd) add-on "- Gryffindor Quidditch Chaser" followed. I'm honestly not quite sure how to interpret this, like,
"she played a character named Rionach O'Neal AND also a Gryffindor Quidditch Chaser (which could be considered as actress-change for the canon Chasers)"
or
"she played a character named Rionach O'Neal, a Gryffindor Quidditch Chaser (which would then be considered non-canon)"
The Chaser tidbit, if it had been on the article before, it isn't for the moment, but that's something listed on a CV her agency direct people to look at, so am wondering how to go about this.
So yeah, basically 2 questions. I think the DA claims should be prioritized though, if anyone's up to rewatching the film, there's that to look out for lol. I think she might be present in the initial meet up at Hog's Head Inn (file:Hhmeeting.jpg, I think the one standing behind Parvati Patilmay be her; I'm not certain and that's just my opinion) --Sammm✦✧(talk) 19:35, March 2, 2019 (UTC)
I just watched every Dumbledore's Army scene again. It's not clear who the girl behind Parvati is, but from what I do see, I don't think it's the same person. The page makes many claims about the character: for example, it says that she was one of the students that Filch and Mrs Norris followed but she's definitely not in that scene: one of them is Cho, another is a boy, there is a blonde Hufflepuff girl and the only other girl is wearing a Slytherin uniform. I don't even see her at the DA lessons. I saw a girl that looked like that Slytherin girl again in the scene when their huddled around Hermione. Her face was very clear in that one, and it's not Rionach.
The page says she was one of the girls huddled around Hermione but I paused the scene a couple of times and could see every face, and I don't think imo that Rionach is even one of them. I'm thinking that HunnieBunn has confused Rionach and the Slytherin girl. I don't think the same actress portrays her. I think the best anyone can do about her being the DA is that one of the girls might be her, and it should be mentioned in BTS instead of the main biography. - Kates39 (talk) 21:26, March 2, 2019 (UTC)
OMG THANK YOU! I really think this needed to be discussed as the opinion on resemblance can quite vary. I'm at a disadvantage because I'm not a huge fan of the film adaptations (I have watched them more than once, but I don't go through them as I do the books). Are you able to get screenshot of those scenes? Even if they clearly don't look like Rionach/Marianne Chase (I'll be honest, the infobox image to me, does not exactly look like Marianne Chase), it can still be of some reference value so that everyone can try to be on the same page. If not, and if you ever again have time to rewatch the film, can you list out the timing of where those scenes you mentioned happened? That can help people with means to screenshot to narrow down when to pay attention, instead of watching the whole film, hoping to spot the scenes lol. Thanks a bunch! (It's okay if neither screenshots or timing can be provided, this just so the next person who also wanted to check out can consider doing lol) xD --Sammm✦✧(talk) 21:54, March 2, 2019 (UTC)
That's okay! I have found screenshots of each scene. I found them on a website that literally screenshots every second of each film and I think it will be of interest to you. It proved to be a great help! Here is a screenshot of the scene when Filch and Mrs Norris follow them: screenshot one and screenshot two. Rionach is not in the scene, but the girl that I said was a Slytherin is actually a Ravenclaw when you zoom in on her badge. You see the two girls other than Cho in the scene many other times in the film. Here is a link to: the screenshot website. The link opens up on page 37, the first time the DA appears. If you go through each page from then on for DA scenes and look at each screenshot a few times, the faces start to get familiar to you. IMO of watching the film and seeing the scenes properly, and from looking at the screenshots, Rionach is not in any of the scenes in OOTP. If she was, it's a big if because I can't make her out and I don't know how HunnieBunn could be certain. I do think she confused the Ravenclaw girl for her. (P.S. I meant to say, I'm not a big fan of the films either tbh! I have been trying to watch them again after many years, and my opinion of them has not changed. I would go through the book a million times a day, but not watch the films for years.) - Kates39 (talk) 22:20, March 3, 2019 (UTC)
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Kate, thank you so so much for sharing the screenshots/site! I hope it remains available because it is dead useful! And I completely agree with you, literally none of them looked like Actress Marianne Chase. I have no idea how the Ravenclaw can be mistaken to be the same girl; she actually has her own page at Unidentified Ravenclaw Girl during the Battle of Hogwarts(advised to probably disregard the infobox image and look at the first two images on that page; this however also an article I found problematic and have raised my confusion regarding to the credited actress at its Talk page), whereas the Hufflepuff girl, according to this wiki (yes, another one so far looking like there's nothing to back it up,) is Susan Bones.
The only girl I previously found that might look like she was played by Actress Marianne Chase, was unfortunately clearly a Hufflepuff, seen at file:Bem in the DA again.jpg, who is most likely the girl I brought up that was standing behind Parvati in the Hog's Head; you can see her in this scene on the far right, with the girl looking back at her being the same Ravenclaw girl that seemed to be confused to be Rionach. Another one is her with again the same Ravenclaw girl leaving the ROR with the others in this scene; after seeing a clearer view of her face, I no longer think she was played by Actress Marianne Chase.
I have not view the entire collection of screenshots, but as of now I found one girl I personally feel to have some sort of resemblance with the credited actress; she is in between Harry and a Slytherin girl in this scene. (I have to reemphasize though, IMHO I don't think the image used in the infobox should be the one used as comparison.) That said, I don't think this girl was present in during the DA meetings. --Sammm✦✧(talk) 18:49, March 4, 2019 (UTC)
Guys, I'm like devastated; I swear on my life that all the refs I mentioned are absolutely real, unfortunately, the Spotlight page (https://www.spotlight.com/interactive/cv/1/F174618 | https://www.spotlight.com/9332-0190-9710) has been updated, and the previous clear credits are now gone. I'm devastated because I did not think about screenshooting, and I just checked the Wayback Machine and no one has archived that page (so I belatedly proceeded to do so in case something like this happens again)
That said, I'd still like to throw this out there in case some people are in fact prepared of the worst case scenario and have screenshots of the previous credits:
"Rionach O'Neal - Gryffindor Quidditch Chaser" (for POA) (unfortunately I didn't see fit to copy the entire credit as it was; it should look something like below)
"Feature Film, Kissing Couple (Girl), HARRY POTTER AND THE ORDER OF THE PHOENIX, Warner Bros, David Yates"
The updated Spotlight profile is basically useless for HP stuff, and that leads us left with Mandy, which does not help us identify just who this "Rionach O'Neal" is; the old Spotlight page at least specified the kissing part. Now I'm just like urghhhhh. (Again, I did not make up those 2 credits)
Updates: I did however backtrack and see if another source can shed some light: https://www.festivalfocus.org/user/11087/marianne_chase/ The site is launched by the same people who created Mandy, but feels having less traffic? (As in, Mandy currently provides unconfirmed info (because the actual confirmed ones would have a green check next to the listing!) Hence, while probably not as unreliable as IMDb, Mandy might not always be totally accurate due to its seemingly high-traffic status and who-knows-who's-editing.) I'm glad to say this page also only show:
"Rionach O'Neal" for POA only (unfortunately no mentioning of the "Gryffindor Quidditch Chaser" part)
"Gryffindor Student" for GOF, HBP, DH1&2
"Kissing Couple" for OOTP
(And yes, I've learned my lessons; made a screenshot and archived the page.)
I'm aware that perhaps this site is just as editable as the other sites, but I do believe the listing is closer to what was on the now-obliterated Spotlight profile (the one the actress's agency directs people to view). This is just another documentation that "Kissing Couple in OOTP" and "Rionach O'Neal only in POA" isn't some made-up statements. --Sammm✦✧(talk) 00:11, March 20, 2019 (UTC)
Sorry for the multiple edits; this should be the last one for the time being unless other people join the conversation to discuss the matter.
Curious that they changed her page! I am trying to work out what scenes she was in during Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part 1 and Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part 2 to clarify whether she actually fought in the Battle of Hogwarts or whether she was just in scenes at the school that had not taken place during the actual battle, but that's going to be a pain! I will go through it when I have the time. I do wish the time was taken by the original editor to source it better and say what they actually saw her do in the battle. - Kates39 (talk) 20:57, March 20, 2019 (UTC)
Update! I just saw in Behind the Scenes that she was supposedly in the Great Hall scene here. I don't see her (maybe the girl on the far right?) but it's not proof that she fought in the Battle because she could have left in the evacuation instead of choosing to fight. - Kates39 (talk) 20:59, March 20, 2019 (UTC)
When I'm on break from whatever main edits I've been doing, I'm actually using the screenshot site you provided to check all crowd-scenes from POA as the actress apparently started appearing since that film; though I forgot for whatever reasons I paused POA and am going through GOF ATM lol. For the image used in BTS, this is again one of those "some user thinks someone looks like they could be another someone" situation; I totally disagree with the claim as none of the girls in that scene, imo, looks like the actress.
TBH, like previously mentioned, I'm actually curious as to how the girl in the infobox was identified as "Rionach O'Neal". I'm not saying it's absolutely false, I suppose there's a possibility that this is actually correct; just that the lighting plays tricks to the facial structure, and I think her nose looks significantly different comparing the infobox image and various photos of the actual actress. If people are basing their search on the infobox image, they may just end up finding different girls, not to mention, as you've discovered, a bunch of the previous claims are of girls that all looked nothing like the already somewhat dubious main photo of the character.
At this point, while I'm not saying this is what's actually happening, I do think it is very possible that people contributed to this article had different girls in their minds and just all assume/believe them to be the same girl. =/ --Sammm✦✧(talk) 21:28, March 20, 2019 (UTC)
I agree. I just took a look through the history of the page. It was undersourced from the beginning. At first, it was just about her part in the kissing scene (that was sourced, but the wording in actress' page was changed since), and then it took what appears to be the liberty of saying that she was in the Battle of Hogwarts (that was unsourced). Then the image of her in the kissing scene was added. It was the next year when another editor added the present image of her in the infobox.
I think your right in saying that a lot of assumptions were formed by individual editors, adding images based on what they thought they saw. And that they thought adding {{fact}} at the end sentences was good enough, but personally I think they should have asked for feedback and just put it in Behind the Scenes. If it can't be sourced it properly, it shouldn't be in the article. I don't think this will be the only page that has undersourced, wrong assumptions. You only have to look at the first discussion on this talk page to see that doubts about these assumptions and images of girls in the films have existed since the page was created.
Not certain how to proceed from here. The only sufficiently sourced piece right now is that she was the girl in the kissing scene because an official description existed of that on Marianne's acting pages - what the actress done in the other scenes and films is unknown because it's not obvious enough who she is and no further descriptions were provided for her part, they just say "Rionach O'Neal". If neither of us can provide a source or agree on a screenshot of the girls in scenes, I think it will probably be best to put those assumptions in BTS. - Kates39 (talk) 22:21, March 20, 2019 (UTC)
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Just to be clear, I only added {{fact}} in this revision, precisely because I find the claims dubious, and soon headed here to reopen this discussion; none of the editors prior seemed to understand sources are in fact needed when contributing lol.
It's really weird because I actually thought the girl helping Ron had at one point been identified as Fay Dunbar and that was how I was even aware of that character's existence. It was before I got an account here; unfortunately from brief glimpses on Dunbar's edit history, that does not seem to be true, so I wonder how and why I felt like I've never heard of "Rionach O'Neal" until I reacquainted with the page in early 2018, when I've obviously been on a page that's about "the girl who helped Ron". Sighs.
You are so right about "I don't think this will be the only page that has undersourced, wrong assumptions." Dunbar's page is a prime example, and I've ranted about it at User talk:Seth Cooper#Multiple reliable source issues (the 5th question) and Seth's response can be seen here, basically confirming a lot of the stuff on Dunbar's page needed to go, just that no one had time to prioritize it to be worked on.
I think the other constructive thing that came out of this discussion, is that I'll probably go retrieve the incorrect content, to correctly add them to Unidentified Ravenclaw Girl during the Battle of Hogwarts, since those actions were actually made by that character.
I kind of think the battle participation part should just be rephrased, that "she's known to have attended Hogwarts that year, period." because that's literally all we know unless screenshots of her is found, I don't think any claims about her hypothetical participation needed to be kept. If people want to continue to make this claim, they needed to be prepared of providing concrete proof, and like you said, make use of the Talk page to discuss. =D --Sammm✦✧(talk) 23:09, March 20, 2019 (UTC)
sorry, I had no idea that you added {{fact}} to the sentences. I made the assumption (yes, another one, why have I added one lol.) that others done it long ago without beginning a discussion because I used to notice it a lot, and they just left it for others to eventually sort out but you done the right thing. :)
The Fay Dunbar thing was a thing that I was confused about too! I saw her name in that many places for the Harry Potter fandom, I began to wonder where it was coming from. I found the answer here lol but it is a very elaborate page for such a minor background character in just two films. It's no wonder the fandom is fixated.
Yes, go ahead and add that to the Ravenclaw girl's page. That was definitely her and not Rionach, and I agree about the rephrasing too - it's known that she was at the school in both DH films because the actor had sourced appearances, but it's unknown what she actually done. what do you think should be done about the infobox pic? - Kates39 (talk) 23:47, March 20, 2019 (UTC)
I think there should be a part II of Forum:Merging Articles on Unidentified Characters(will look into the its Special:WhatLinksHere to see if I can just archive it and then continue the discussion with the same title), since the problem has not been completely resolved. I mean, I'm sure it was even more ridiculous before, and actions have been taken, but there's still a lot of characters that have been tagged to be non notable and have not been processed. I think I'll look over all the actresses credited in GOF (I can't help with the ones that aren't credited =/) and see if I can find a match with the girl that helped Ron (because if I can, then that'd prove said girl obviously wasn't Rionach O'Neal); even if I can't find a match, I think, if enough people can agree that "the girl does not seem to be the same girl", there probably should be a "hub" page for "Unidentified Gryffindors" (or "Unidentified Gryffindor girls/boys" depending on if the number of unidentified individuals is too big and needing a gender separation), and "the girl that helped Ron" would fit into that page. (BTW, the claims about Fay's film appearance would def. also go to that to-be-created-hub page; I believe I've just located her actress.) --Sammm✦✧(talk) 00:31, March 21, 2019 (UTC)
Infobox image
Meanwhile (see above conversation), though not ideal, I'm not sure there's other options for the infobox image, unfortunately. There's the option of reverting to the super blurry, but definitely accurate, kissing image lol, something I'm not against xD. I do still think that one girl I spotted earlier has a greater resemblance to the actress, but I can't guarantee that's 100% her, unless people want to have a vote for it lol. --Sammm✦✧(talk) 00:31, March 21, 2019 (UTC)
Looking at that screenshot you noted and pics of Marianne Chase, I am confident enough in thinking they're the same person and I prefer that to the current infobox pic:
The girl in an OOTP crowd-scene
Marianne Chase 1
Marianne Chase 2
Marianne Chase 3
If both in agreement, I see no reason why the infobox image cannot be changed to that. The current pic may be relocated to BTS or another place (the hub?). I could ask for the opinion of an admin before just in case a vote needs to be held. Then I could rephrase the unsourced sentences that say what she done in confirmed film appearances, because that's unknown for the time-being. And yes, another discussion at the forum you noted could prove helpful and improve the category and the pages in that category. - Kates39 (talk) 13:14, March 21, 2019 (UTC)
I've added 2 additional images of the actress (that are already uploaded onto HPW) to the gallery, just so there's more to go with for comparison; cuz I don't want people to assume we note the similarity only because the mouth in the first 2 images are both opened lol. (Yes, people have actually done something similar in the past Orz) I do prefer it, and I'm glad at least I'm not the only person with this opinion lol. I also like your proposal of how to handle the unconfirmed stuff for the time being.
Not sure if we should just proceed, then again, I feel like at least 2 people (you and me xDDD) were involved in an actual discussion, whereas previously, it looks like the editor just decided "the girl who helped Ron" was the same girl and went ahead, so if anything, the change shouldn't be met with scrutiny or it'd just be double standard xP. --Sammm✦✧(talk) 16:46, March 21, 2019 (UTC)
I'm going to just go ahead and change the infobox image and alter the article. But I will keep the present one and put it in BTS for now. It's such a minor character, and as you say, it shouldn't be met with scrutiny because of a few reasons. If an admin or other editor questions it or undoes it, then that's fine, I will just explain. Per this discussion , it was found that the infobox image was not the right character. Let me know what you think when I have done that. - Kates39 (talk) 19:25, March 21, 2019 (UTC)
I think you did great. Am currently trying to backtrack so I can at least describe the scene where the preferred image occurred (will probably update it with a closer crop (the top part)), meanwhile.... Shocking! I'm not sure if I'm just seeing things, but I think "the girl who helped Ron", looks somewhat like thisgirl; the girl behind Seamus who's looking towards the camera; ironically, see there's another girl behind her? I think that's actually Rionach, as seen here. Those scenes are on page 22 of the screenshot site. Said girl is also likely theone that sat behind Harry in Umbridge's first DADA class. I think we can safely conclude "the girl who helped Ron" is not played by Chase, if we can accept that the girl in the background is the one played by Chase, if that makes any sense. Might update if there's new findings. --Sammm✦✧(talk) 21:09, March 21, 2019 (UTC)
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That's an interesting find, well spotted! I think it's enough to get rid of the BTS pic and info from Rionach's page, and add that screenshot of Rionach in that scene to this page with a sentence or two to say what happened in it. I feel like the unidentified girl has enough for her own page entitled "Unidentified Gryffindor girl (I)" or whatever no. is needed. she even had a speaking part. Do you think perhaps a new page should be created for her and put these screenshots you found of her and the old Rionach infobox pic there? - Kates39 (talk) 23:02, March 21, 2019 (UTC)
The scene with both girls (in the Gryffindor Common Room) can probably only be placed in BTS; it's supposedly a version of Seamus' inquiry on Harry's statement (if I'm interpreting it correctly, that is), which in the book took place in Gryffindor Boys' Dormitory with only Harry's dorm mates present.
I'm conflicted about "the girl who helped Ron", because her film role also contradicts Tier 1 canon where Ginny did all the talking in that scene and no other girls were mentioned to be around. I think it's pretty fascinating that there's multiple appearances of that girl (assuming "the girl who helped Ron" is the same girl in OOTP, I won't say I'm 100% certain lol), but there's an unidentified Hogwarts staff who, if HPW's claims can be believed, appeared in 5 films and still ended up merged into a hub article, so I'm just not sure it's worth the hassle (at the moment); that said, I think perhaps user test pages or the HPW sandbox could be considered, just to test out how it'd look like but not actually going through with creating a new article.
A couple of more scenes to get a better grasp on this girl's facial features: 1, 2, 3, 4 during the toad's DADA class, and another where she cheered amongst other students for Fred and George Weasley's tricks (interrupted by the toad.)
I'm also having trouble matching an actress to her, something I'll probably reply on your Talk page about if I get to it, as it now has less to do with Rionach xD. --Sammm✦✧(talk) 00:51, March 22, 2019 (UTC)
Okay, best to put her in the potential hub then. Hopefully you get a reply about the forum protocol soon and then can begin a discussion about it. I am searching for the actress too, but yes, best to discuss that elsewhere now that the Rionach problem is solved. - Kates39 (talk) 11:09, March 22, 2019 (UTC)
Her role
This discussion is listed as an active talk page. Please remove this template when the question has been answered.
Reference image
Hi, so as noted in #Dumbledore's Army, although currently not having a source to back this up since the original source removed that detail, Actress Chase was credited as "Rionach O'Neal - Gryffindor Quidditch Chaser" for POA, though the Chaser part never made it onto HPW. I went looking through scenes from the only Quidditch match in the film, and found her possibly being the only girl facing towards the camera in the foreground, as seen in 1 & 2; I didn't particularly think so when just seeing 1, but I have to say the frown in 2 made me paused. She'd be the one identified (through deduction) as "4 Alicia" in the reference image; ironically, that image is used on Oliver, Angelina, Katie's articles, but not Alicia's? Once upon a time I wouldn't have a problem with this deduction, since, unless specifically specifying to be different, it'd seem reasonable to just assume they were representing the canon team members. However, since Chase for some reason actually got a named character, that's a slightly different matter.
I'll admit, if I hadn't previously seen the specific credit, I likely would not have looked at the Hospital Wing scene and go, hey! That's Marianne Chase!; however, knowing what I knew, and seeing that frown, I have to consider the possibility. The only conclusion I found faulty in the logic used by the reference image, was how 4,5,6 was deducted (the 3 chasers), I feel like "Alicia" could have easily been the one on the bed, and, well, characters' complexion aren't always consistent during recast, so while I'd like to agree that 6 is Angelina, it could also easily not be the case.
I'm bringing this up because, if it could be agreed upon that "4 Alicia" looks possibly vaguely like she could be Marianne Chase, a BTS would be something like "Chase filled in a role of a Chaser"? I don't think it's appropriate to say she specifically replaced Alicia, as as mentioned above, it could have been the other 2 as well. So yeah, interested to see what people think, and well, if people are like, "4 Alicia" looks nothing like Chase, then there's no need to continue the convo lol.
That said, seeing Quidditch and Oliver Wood, reminded me a possibility that was not addressed. I think we were being pretty careful comparing to the previous treatment of the article, however, there's the possibility that, Rionach O'Neal returned to the school, just like Wood did after graduation, to help the fight. Since we don't have any screenshots of her, while I think it's logical to think she was attending school at the time, but there's still a possibility that she wasn't. YESSSSS, I know, that's like super overthinking and like conjuring up some odd specific scenario, but Wood (and a bunch of Weasleys and former Quidditch team members) are proof of this route, so should it not be considered? Thoughts would be appreciated! =D (And yes, I'm aware Chase was initially credited still as just "Gryffindor Student" in DH1&2, but still)
That's a tricky one because in the books, the three Chasers were Katie, Alicia and Angelina and they would have played in that Hufflepuff match. I remember Katie was certainly mentioned during the match and since the book beats the films in terms of canonicity, Rionach could not be one of the Chasers. If Marianne Chase was not said to have portrayed Rionach in that film, I would have said it was probable she was a stand-in for Katie Bell because characters who were minor in earlier films were recast when they became prominent. And tbh, this time I could not say whether "4. Alicia" was Marianne. If it's taken to be her, then the BTS should probably be worded that "Chase portrayed a Chaser" rather than "filled in".
The fact that she was labelled a "student" (and she wouldn't be if she had graduated), I would say that she was a student during that year rather than a former student who went back to the school just to fight. I think if she had graduated, she wouldn't count as a student. - Kates39 (talk) 19:56, March 27, 2019 (UTC)
Not using this as a proof (because it's still very unclear), just figured cutting out some distraction while adjusting the colorization to enhance the visibility of facial features (I'm aware the colorization is atrocious; it's not meant for anything other than referential comparison.)
I wasn't suggesting "Rionach" to be stated as a Chaser (well, she could be, though yeah, that'd just make that appearance/role non-canon, as initially stated when discovering the credit) But yes, I think I used "filled in" because I was still clinging onto the notion that Chase was both credited with a name and a role, and wanted to address that, well, it doesn't quite work because canon Chasers are such and such, without actually explaining it, making it more confusing, I guess. D; (and this is all wouldn't matter if the girl isn't Chase lol)
Ahh yes, I was like, would they credit someone as "ex-Gryffindor Student" (Gryffindor ex-Student), "Gryffindor Graduate", "Former Gryffindor Student" etc.? (but then was there a point of specifying the House? Or perhaps they were just being careful since this actress had previously been a Gryffindor?) Yeah, at this point I'm definitely overthinking. Thanks for the input. (being sincere; RL happenings is likely affecting my judgements) --Sammm✦✧(talk) 21:20, March 27, 2019 (UTC)
Perhaps a third opinion on whether it could be Chase is needed, but I personally just don't feel confident enough to say it is her. I would say it should be put in BTS that Rionach was a Chaser in the film series but the source for that role no longer exists and cannot be verified. - Kates39 (talk) 14:00, March 28, 2019 (UTC)
Replying to question "Is that the only scene she was in during POA?" posted on my Talk page: Forgot if I had explicitly mentioned that, aside from specifically looking through the POA Quidditch scene (mentioned in the beginning of this section,) I also paid attention to crowd scenes (or basically any scene that contained non-main-cast individuals) and did not find anything else. That said, the screenshot site does not have the whole POA captured; it only has up until the-time-traveled Harry fending off the Attack at the Great Lake. I guess it is possible for her to have other appearances in the remaining scenes that aren't shown on the site, just that I don't plan to rewatch the film any time soon; if anyone wants to tackle it, have fun! lol --Sammm✦✧(talk) 00:48, May 3, 2019 (UTC)
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I apologise, I have only just seen your reply! I have looked through other scenes in POA but I haven't found her. I will note her appearance in that POA scene in BTS. It can't be in the biography because she wasn't a Chaser in the books. - Kates39 (talk) 16:33, May 11, 2019 (UTC)
No worries! BTW, it only just occurred to me, even though her Chaser appearance is non-canon, are we supposed to "apply canon criteria" for "her non-canonical appearance to make sense"? As in, should it be considered that she theoretically should be at least in her second year during the 1993–1994 school year, assuming the "no first year rule is still abided in general"? Feels like a lot of assumptions going on lol. IDK.
Even in the first film, Harry was the youngest player in a century and Ron says "first years never make their house teams", so it's both film and book canon that it's rare and she was probably at least in her second-year during the 1993-1994 school year. I wouldn't say it was a given thing but I see no reason why it can't be noted. Since she was attending the school in the 93-94 and 97-98 school years, she had to be in Harry's year, the year below or two years below. - Kates39 (talk) 11:40, May 12, 2019 (UTC)
A recap on how this article became so messed up
This section title actually is the most suitable one I can sum up for what this section is for. Because some people don't understand the importance of preserving edit history, some content looked like they just popped out of nowhere. The page Unidentified Gryffindor girl (VI) was actually where MOST inaccurate and baseless claims of this article came from, but because said page was previously deleted and content manually relocated instead of a proper merge, those edits were kept hidden and un-viewable to regular Users. Here are some breakdowns:
Whom User:Jack "BtR" Saxon originally created the page for
The page ("Unidentified Gryffindor girl (VI)") was created by User:Jack "BtR" Saxon, who later (in Jan. 2010) clarified who this page was actually for in this edit, and it should be fairly obvious to people who have decent functioning facial recognition skill that, the certain infobox image swap below was the beginning to how this article went so offtrack.
The replacement image by User:Seamuslover; no discussion currently found.
In July 2010, User:Seamuslover replaced the infobox image in this edit; "Capture.jpg" was renamed to "Unidentified Gryffindor girl VI-OOTP.jpg", which was another step that took this article into the wrong direction.
In Nov. 2011, a separate page "Rionach O'Neal" was created by Anon User:69.243.207.6, but was unfortunately quickly tagged for deletion (and was processed) due to the lack of fact-double-checking by the person and people with Rights.
In Apr. 2012, Anon User:216.64.230.75 added to state Marianne Chase played "Unidentified Gryffindor girl (VI)" in this edit, which is the one that first tied "Unidentified Gryffindor girl (VI)" to "Rionach O'Neal".
Rionach O'Neal's confirmed scene.
In Oct. 2012, User:1337starrecreated the page "Rionach O'Neal" (still separately) with factual content, with User:Seth Cooper quickly providing the only available (but accurate) image at the time in this edit.
In Feb. 2013, User:Hunnie Bunnproposed a merge for "Unidentified Gryffindor girl (VI)" and "Rionach O'Neal" because "Both are played by Marianne Chase, both appear in PoA and OotP, they even look the same." If there was any discussion or vote on the matter, providing it would be appreciated because it looks like the User just decided to proceed via manual info relocation rather than a proper merge, a few days after their own pitch; as seen in this edit, the manual way to make "Unidentified Gryffindor girl (VI)" a redirect for "Rionach O'Neal".
From then on, no one bothered to check and realize there were little facts in the article, with misattribution being the majority of the content.
The rest is recent history. In Mar. 2019, I (User:Sammm鯊) questioned everything that was written on the page, and User:Kates39 was very helpful in discussion to filter and find what actually happened in canon, as shown in the discussion sections above.
Conclusion: Nothing new, actually.
a] Always cite your source, and do everyone a favor, do not speculate.
b] Do not randomly swap out images without at least providing a reason (because apparently, there isn't a rule that says a discussion is needed when doing so) (which in this case is super unfortunate, since the before and after of the image swap does not look like they were portrayed by the same actress.)
c] When proposing a merge, have the decency to document it somewhere if not actually discussing it. When it's clear duplicates (apostrophe or uppercase/lowercase differences) those are self-explanatory, but when it's unidentified characters that has little source to back up claims? Yeah, you can be bold, but how about notifying at least one Staff what you planned to be doing, so that if the baseless claim is proven to be incorrect, Staff can at least know there's an article out there that needs fixing?
I am recapping this because I feel very partially at fault; perhaps User:Jack "BtR" Saxon's Unidentified Gryffindor girl (VI) actually deserves her own page despite being on the un-notable side, but because of the combined efforts of Anons and Users, the page was somehow proven to be "Rionach O'Neal" without actual proofs to support it. I hope the transparency of what happened could be a lesson so that hopefully, nothing similar would happen on this wiki again. One can wish. --Sammm✦✧(talk) 07:26, November 24, 2019 (UTC)
