Before editing, be sure to read the wiki's policies. Please sign your name on Talk and vote pages using four tildes (~~~~) to automatically produce your name and the current date. Be sure to verify your e-mail address in your preferences. Before attempting any major article rewrites please read the layout guide. If you have any questions, check out the policy and help pages (see here for editing help), add a question to the Community portal, view the forum or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome!
Re:Using Dumbledore's scenes in Crimes of Grindelwald as basis for contradictions.
For a second, I thought we would be using the talk page of the "Crimes of Grindelwald" page, but okay. ^^'
Imo, you haven't really given a good reason for why Dumbledore teaching Defense Against the Dark Arts should in any way mean that he can't be Head of the Transfiguration Department at the same time, or at least Head of it when he hired McGonagall prior to that.
We can start with the fact that Jude Law said in an interview that Rowling had told him "everything about Dumbledore", and then proceeded to say that at this stage in his career, Dumbledore wasn't teaching Transfiguration yet. the source, you can find here, meaning that he wasn't a part of the Transfiguration department at the time, in charge of otherwise. The "Transfiguration department" is an academic department, it's, for the lack of better words, the base of operations for the tutelage on the subject of Transfiguration at the school. Yes, we do indeed know teachers can hold more than once position, like Minerva being teacher, head of house and deputy headmistress, but those other three are different types of responsibility: One is a teaching post, one is a job as caregiver to the students of a given house, and one is a senior administrative position. At no point do we ever hear of one teacher teaching more than one subject, and that's obviously that no witch or wizard, regardless of skill, could possibly have the capacity to do so, for obvious reasons.
The scenes with Dumbledore in the film are very brief, with few if any discussing what his exact position in the school is.
Yes, they're brief, but he was a Defence Against the Dark Arts Professor at the time, I mean, that's understood, right?
Otherwise, you can't just use Dumbledore's teaching one certain class in two different time periods as evidence that he's not in any way also that Head of the Transfiguration Department described in Pottermore.
I can and I am. Just think about it for a bit: We know Dumbledore was remorseful for letting himself be enthralled by Grindelwald's charm and extremist ideology and, more than anything, that his friendship with Grindelwald was what led to Ariana's death. Bitter and full of regret, burdened with the secret knowledge of his old friend's plans, and wanting to rectify past mistakes, isn't it very much in-character for Dumbledore to want the DADA job specifically because he foresaw Grindelwald's rise to power and decided that, if nothing else, he could arm successive generations at Hogwarts with the knowledge and skill to defend themselves when the time came?
Why would he even want to Head the Transfiguration department when there was more important matters to attend to? Don't it make more sense to you if Dumbledore taught DADA for the reasons above, (up until the point when Rowling decided to ignore her own canon for fan service (McGonagall teaching pre-birth) and shock value (Having Travers disallowing Dumbledore to teach DADA despite having no authority to do so) at least), and then, as the time to go after Grindelwald grew nearer, Dumbledore finally transferred to his favorite subject as a way of lowering his shoulders, because he knew that when he did duel Gellert, he would either win, meaning he was free to teach Transfiguration, or he would be killed and/or try to take Grindelwald with him, in which case Professor Dippet would've have had ample time to replace him with someone who could continue to make sure his charges knew how to defend themselves when he was no longer there, if Grindelwald won and he and his supporters had even more of a free reign to terrize the world.
Regardless of how Dumbledore ended up not teaching DADA anymore, wouldn't you agree he had more than enough reason to stay where he was and focus on that? Then, with Grindelwald defeated, he became Transfiguration teacher full-time and was appointed Head of Transfiguration at some point down the line.
Dumbledore was Supreme Mugwump and Headmaster of Hogwarts at one point. Don't you think he can have managed to juggle having two jobs at this early point in his career?
And Chief Warlock of the Wizengamot. However, his job as Supreme Mugwump and Chief Warlocks was unrelated to academia, and the relevant responsibilities/duties could in large part be attended to by written correspondance, save for the occassional meetings that would, regardless of where in the world it was in regard to the ICW given magical transportation, recquire Dumbledore to leave for only a given number of hours at the time.
In RL, you have teachers who teach a little of this and a little of that and circulate between certain classes, but have you ever heard of a teacher who taught full-time in two subject at the same time? How would Dumbledore get the time to do that? Maester Martin (talk) 18:14, December 16, 2018 (UTC)
Okay, now you've given a good answer. You should have started out by immediately citing that EW article interview with Jude Law, instead of just the Pottermore biography, because the biography plus the movie formed no immediate contradiction past the 39 years teaching line. Be sure to cite that next time to avoid confusion.
- I will try and keep that in mind henceforth. ^^'
- Arguably if Jude Law hadn't said anything, we would have just presumed that Dumbledore wasn't teaching Defense Against the Dark Arts full time. It's just what we see him teach.that class whenever the movie pans to him. Storytelling focuses on the coincidental and pattern-forming moments rather than the mundane and non-relative ones and all that, especially in films.
- With all due respect, there is nothing in canon that suggest Hogwarts even have such a thing as a part-time teaching position, not counting substitute teachers. So either Dumbledore taught DADA full-time, or he didn't teach. There is nothing in canon that prevents him and Professor Merrythought from teaching DADA at the same time to different classes, just like Professors McGonagall and Dumbledore did for a short time prior to his appoinment as Dippet's successor. Hogwarts is a big school with many students, and humans, magical or no, can do only so much, so it makes sense for the school to have more than one professor in a subject, at least the mandatory ones. Pomonoa Sprout is the school's Head of Herbology, and if there were only one professor in the Herbology department, then she'd be head of nothing. For all we know, Snape and Flitwick are "Charms Master" and "Potions Master" respectively because they enjoy seniority over other potions and charms professors at the school that we just don't see them because they don't teach Harry and his classmates specifically.
- The time in which Voldemort's jinx on the DADA job notwithstanding, of course, when there only could be one.
- Why would we think that Dumbledore, one of the most amazing wizards of all time can somehow balance two full-time jobs? Question kinda answers itself. If there's anyone who could balance two full time jobs, it would be him. Also, time turners can easily come into play, since their precise date of origin(if I'm not mistaken) has never been specified.
- Because managing two full-time jobs has nothing to do with being a wizard. In the case of teaching, it is about structuring a comprehensive cirriculum, lesson planning, teaching, grading homework, writing tests, help oversee examinations, be available to the students during scheduled office hours. You can be the best and most efficient teacher in the world, but you will still just have the time and capacity to do so much.
- The Jude Law interview seemingly makes this all moot, so we'll just have to wait and see what happens, besides the possible inevitable announcement by Rowling that this is one of those changes that starts cleaving the book and movie universes apart in certain ways.
- I quite disagree. My understanding of Jude Law's words was that Dumbledore began as a DADA Professor, and later switched to Transfiguration, and did such a good job that he became Head of the Transfiguration department and eventually appointed Headmaster. Maester Martin (talk) 14:55, December 17, 2018 (UTC)