Archive 1

Image renames

Hello. Can you help me understand why this image had its named changed to remove the hyphen normally used in canon e.g. House-elf, House-Elves & Self-Hatred, etc... ? Just trying to understand the reasoning.

Also, it looks like you moved a file yesterday, but the link didn't get updated on Hermione Granger and a user page, which now have broken images as there is no redirect. Can you take a look into what might be happening in your process that would cause this and if there have been other files/links affected?

Move Log

  • June 26, 2020 MechQueste (Talk | contribs | block) moved page File:H uniform 5.jpg to File:Harry & Hermione talking.jpg without leaving a redirect (revert)

Thanks --Ironyak1 (talk) 20:20, June 27, 2020 (UTC)

to answer, the first one was a mistake. I had thought House elf and should have been separate. Also, I had fixed the link to the 2nd one. User blogs can't be edited. MechQueste 17:35, June 28, 2020 (UTC)
Sorry, I'm still trying to understand what happened with the "File:H uniform 5.jpg" rename. Thoughts on why the Hermione Granger article didn't get updated at the time of the rename - are there extra manual steps needed after or was it done with a script and there may be underlying technical issues? I am just trying to figure out if this was a one-off glitch or could there be more files renamed without the page text being updated? Thanks --Ironyak1 (talk) 18:05, June 28, 2020 (UTC)
I think it might be because the photo in question had been renamed twice, from to H uniform 5.jpg and then to the current name, the first rename leaving a redirect, the second rename not, and Hermione's page not being updated either time. This meant that the photo on Hermione's page didn't flag the page up in Cat:Pages with broken file links, because it wasn't a redlink, because while is no longer a photo, it still contained the '#Redirect File:H uniform 5.jpg' text. As can be seen here and here, this first page rename was done by User:Sammm鯊. Sammm renamed quite a lot of photos without updating the filename on the pages on which they appeared, I ended up doing said page updating. MechQueste hasn't made a mistake here, in my opinion. Hope this helps -  MrSiriusBlack  Talk  20:11, June 28, 2020 (UTC)

Thanks to everyone for the feedback on this. Technical issues can get complicated quickly so the extra attention is appreciated. While Sammm鯊's change to that File seems to have left a "speed bump" for the current process, the article was fine after her change because she left a Redirect. It was only after the second renaming, done without a Redirect, that the article had a broken image link instead of the usual image.

Can the current Content Mods help me understand why Redirects are not being left when these images are being renamed? I was just looking through some page histories in making this Forum post and you can see that some historical versions of the articles now have several broken images links from recent File renaming. Obviously that's not a good thing as it really is important to be able to fully see the article's history and how it looked at a particular point in time after the contributions of that editor.

I'll ping Sammm鯊 on this as well to see if she's around and can help inform the situation. I look forward to everyone being able to work together to figure this out and get things fixed. Cheers --Ironyak1 (talk) 15:57, June 29, 2020 (UTC)

After a Discord talk with Yechezkelb (thanks for reaching out), I think we have the problem pinned down at least. What is happening is that after a File is Renamed without a Redirect left behind, all the versions of the page

previous in date the to Rename that contained the File can not longer link to it. This means when you view a version in the Page History from before the File Rename you don't see the actual version from that date, but rather red links , or blank spaces, for the Files it can no longer find. Not really a good thing clearly, and I haven't heard the reasoning for why the choice was made to not make the Redirects.

Examples are easy to find once you understand the problem. Basically take an image that was Renamed without a Redirect, find the current page it is on, then view the Version right before the File rename. As an example:
June 13, 2020 (diff | hist) . . (0)‎ . . m File:Amycus Carrow.png ‎ (Yechezkelb moved page File:AmycusCarrow.png to File:Amycus Carrow.png without leaving a redirect) (top) [rollback]
The version right after the rename correctly has the the Carrow image in the grid, while the version before (and all others previous with this File link) are missing the Carrow image in the grid, although they would have actually been there and visible in that version.
Another example: June 27, 2020 MechQueste (Talk | contribs | block) moved page File:HeadlessHuntCrest.png to File:Headless Hunt Crest.png without leaving a redirect (revert)
The version after the rename has the infobox image. The version before (and other previous versions going back to 2013 when the file was added to page) don't display the version correctly which should include that infobox image.
Note that some of these images are found on several pages and some of the pages contain several images that have been renamed, so some past versions now display multiple red links and broken images.
So how to fix this then? It would seem that either the Redirects need to be made directly so the past versions can link to the new file name, or these Renames need to be reverted and done again with the Redirect. However, as there are roughly 1000 files affected from over the last couple months, doing this by hand would be quite tedious.
I would suggest MechQueste and Yechezkelb reach out to contacts on Staff, at other wikis, or other technical resources to see if there is a way to revert the full batch of changes and reapply them but with the Redirect, or create all the Redirects programatically. Off the top of my head, I don't know of an automated solution, but hopefully someone knows of a dev tool or other way to handle fixing all these images Renames auto-magically.
Please let me know if there are any questions and keep me up to date on what the next steps might be once they are determined. Cheers --Ironyak1 (talk) 04:33, June 30, 2020 (UTC)

MechQueste can you please not Rename more files without leaving a Redirect as it is directly breaking file links and leaving red links in many places. I am hoping you are looking at the information above and considering how to fix these numerous problems created so far and prevent more of these issues from happening. Thanks --Ironyak1 (talk) 17:52, June 30, 2020 (UTC)

These images are in need or renaming, as they have or had very poor titles which are unusable. It would perhaps be a good idea if other people who can change these file names, not just MechQueste who is doing a very good job.--RedWizard98 (talk) 18:05, June 30, 2020 (UTC)

The trouble is that by Renaming without leaving a Redirect is breaking thousands of File links throughout the site. For clarity, I did not say to not Rename files, only not to do so without leaving a Redirect, unless someone can explain the strong reasoning behind doing so. Thanks --Ironyak1 (talk) 18:09, June 30, 2020 (UTC)

Still, at least MechQueste is trying to address the problem effectively. --RedWizard98 (talk) 18:14, June 30, 2020 (UTC)

Yes, be he could be doing it more effectively. More efficiently, anyway. Literally all Yak is saying is to leave a redirect when you rename a photo. That way, it is not necessary to go through hordes of pages updating the file links, because with a redirect in place, its file links wouldn't turn into redlinks, they would stay as photos on the page where the file link exists. -  MrSiriusBlack  Talk  19:01, June 30, 2020 (UTC)
I'm trying to be very clear as outside of maybe Yechezkelb who I talked to directly about this yesterday at their request, I don't think anyone is understanding the severity of the problems caused by not leaving a redirect.
Without that redirect every version of an article in the history that contains that File link can no longer find that image. This means as more and more images are "renamed without leaving a redirect", the History of every article with the related file links becomes more and more damaged and unable to display the images that were in fact there for that version at that point in time.
I will also point out that Wanted Files is growing with all these "renames without a redirect" as more and more articles, templates, and user spaces are unable to link to their images now.
Please take the time to read and review this situation. There is a lot of fixing that needs to be done resulting from these "renames without a redirect". Thanks --Ironyak1 (talk) 19:11, June 30, 2020 (UTC)
If this is indeed creating a problem (as it seems), then I do strongly urge MechQueste to stop changing filenames without leaving the necessary redirect behind; preferably to stop period until the issue is addressed. --  Seth Cooper  owl post! 20:58, June 30, 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps another solution would be if other content moderators or admins would like to see a change on this topic, would to be to simply rename the image files themselves, after all, it is not difficult to do. Others should take some initiative and simply do the job themselves. --RedWizard98 (talk) 21:01, June 30, 2020 (UTC)

Hello all, this is an acknowledgement that everytime I rename a file, I will leave a redirect behind. Thank you. MechQueste 01:31, July 1, 2020 (UTC)

Pausing File Renames

I am requesting that we put a pause on all File renaming activity until a wider discussion about best practices can be had given some of the disagreements and misunderstandings I am seeing between the Content Moderators. Also, there is already a huge set of issues with renamed Files that need to be resolved, so I don't believe it helpful to add yet more entries in the move log that need to be reviewed to see what impact they've had. I appreciate everyone's patience and help in this matter. Many thanks --Ironyak1 (talk) 16:00, July 1, 2020 (UTC)

I would also like to request pausing the removing of red links to Files as many of these should be fixed when the missing redirect are restored and having them in Wanted Files provides a guide to images that likely need a redirect. The problem is complicated enough, let's not add to the difficulties of getting it sorted out properly. Thanks --Ironyak1 (talk) 16:24, July 1, 2020 (UTC)

ok then. MechQueste 19:12, July 1, 2020 (UTC)

RE Dead videos

As I noted above, there is already a huge set of issues with Files Renamed without a Redirect that need to be resolved. This needs to be focused on rather than deleting yet more Files, especially as there is no pressing need for these actions. All this extra File namespace activity creates more entries to review and further complicates the very messy situation.

Have you counted up the number of File Renames without a Redirect you have done that need to be fixed and figured out how you are going to go about that process? Thanks --Ironyak1 (talk) 17:18, July 2, 2020 (UTC)

Jeremy Clarkson

Can you explain why you reverted my edits to Jeremy Clarkson please? - Patrik-Jay (talk) 13:05, July 3, 2020 (UTC)

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